# Intelligence is Overrated **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456 "2013-05-03T21:38:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/41 "2013-05-05T12:25:07Z")
BrainGlutton, the truth in that passage is seldom considered. Human intelligence will quite possibly be our downfall. Already, it has enabled us to destroy much of the natural environment irreparably and wage war on a planetary scale. Technology and exploration are seen as advancements, but what are we advancing towards if not our own doom? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/42 "2013-05-05T12:27:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > From Bruce Sterling’s SF short story “Swarm”: Afriel, a human agent of the Solar System’s Shaper faction (specializing in gene-engineering), at war with the Mechanists (prosthetics and technology), has been sent to the Hive, a cluster of asteroids in a distant star system, where, in air-filled tunnels burrowed through the rock, live the Swarm, a race of nonsentient beings with many specialized castes. His mission is purportedly scientific study, but his real mission is to domesticate the Swarm, alter their genes to make them produce things the Shapers can use. At the end, his partner, the (real) scientist Mirny, vanishes, and Swarm of the soldier caste arrest him and take him before what appears to be a new caste, a Swarm with a giant brain, which has absorbed his partner’s mind and memories through a tentacle thrust into her head, so it can now speak her language. Afriel’s pheromonal experiments created a chemical imbalance which the Queen detected, triggering genetic patterns, causing the brain to be born to deal with the threat. That’s weird, I’ve read that story and I don’t remember it being ambiguous about the fate of intelligence. The bit you quoted leaves it open that intelligence leads to some kind of desirable “singularity event” rather than simple destruction. I recalled the story as being unambiguously pessimistic. Also I found its premise (that an unintelligent entity could “put on” intelligence as a tool when necessary) to be really implausible. Surely it, as a whole, had intelligence all along even if none of its individual members did. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/43 "2013-05-05T12:31:31Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > An intelligent person would understand that the fact that Mark Twain’s name isn’t Twain undermines any purported familial connection between Clomens and Shania Twain. Anything’s possible, but if part of your reason for finding the connection plausible was the shared last name, then once you find out about Samuel Clemens, you’ve lost that part of your reason. And if that was your main reason, you’re left without a good reason. If you’re intelliegent. But the claim was made that “if there was a chance of any relation, she would have to at least be named Shania Clemens!,” which is simply not true. I understand that there is no implied familial connection between the two people based on their shared pseudonyms, but making obviously false statements to support an argument that someone else is stupid is ineffective at best. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/44 "2013-05-05T12:36:30Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > “if there was a chance of any relation, she would have to at least be named Shania Clemens!,” Hrm, I guess I have to concede the point. But I am awfully certain the person who made the above statement didn’t really mean exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/45 "2013-05-05T12:41:32Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > She said, “Do you still want it?”. I bought it. _Sucker_, she muttered under her breath as the chump walked off with his diluted cologne… ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/46 "2013-05-05T13:00:13Z")
Not being aware of the fact that Mark Twain was a pen name used by Samuel Clemens does not signify a lack of intelligence anyway. Knowledge of trivia is not the same thing as intelligence at all. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/47 "2013-05-05T13:04:05Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > An intelligent person would understand that the fact that Mark Twain’s name isn’t Twain undermines any purported familial connection between Clomens and Shania Twain. Anything’s possible, but if part of your reason for finding the connection plausible was the shared last name, then once you find out about Samuel Clemens, you’ve lost that part of your reason. And if that was your main reason, you’re left without a good reason. If you’re intelliegent. I get that but the answer to someone like that isn’t " If there was a chance of any relation, she would have to at least be named Shania Clemens! " You don’t fight faulty thinking by making a faulty argument to counter it. It’s not logical to deduce anything about a relationship between two people due to their names when they’re both using fake names.That’s the better answer and I’m sure the kids could grasp that pretty easily. ETA: Or what **AnaMen** already said. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/48 "2013-05-05T13:07:25Z")
Guess I’m not related to my grandparents who have the last name Woolsey. Better disown them while they’re still alive! ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/49 "2013-05-05T13:10:26Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Not being aware of the fact that Mark Twain was a pen name used by Samuel Clemens does not signify a lack of intelligence anyway. Knowledge of trivia is not the same thing as intelligence at all. That’s true. I was just saying that once you learn Samuel Clemens’ real name, you should then doubt that Shania Twain is related absent further evidence. This was in response to a poster who was trying to show that they still _might_ be related even if they don’t have the same last name. It pushed a button of mine–I often find students defending their views, when evidence for them is challenged, by trying to show they _could_ be true, when the point is to try to show that it _is_ true. I should wait til after finals to post on the dope. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/50 "2013-05-05T13:28:15Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > That’s true. I was just saying that once you learn Samuel Clemens’ real name, you should then doubt that Shania Twain is related absent further evidence. This was in response to a poster who was trying to show that they still _might_ be related even if they don’t have the same last name. > > It pushed a button of mine–I often find students defending their views, when evidence for them is challenged, by trying to show they _could_ be true, when the point is to try to show that it _is_ true. I should wait til after finals to post on the dope. I hope that poster wasn’t me. I admitted that after a few minutes of wikipedia it was clear that they weren’t related ( first line second paragraph ) but without any research it was possible that they were. My entire point was that not enough information was given to come to any conclusion about whether they were related given that one side had said they couldn’t be because they weren’t named the same. I really, really hope it wasn’t me. I even gave the last name of his last descendant which I wouldn’t have done had I entertained any thought that Ms Twain could ‘still’ be related. At that point, I’d clearly put the time in to know the answer was false and wasn’t trying to hide that fact. The kids were likely confusing her with the Hemingway granddaughters anyway. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/51 "2013-05-05T13:37:55Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > BrainGlutton, the truth in that passage is seldom considered. Human intelligence will quite possibly be our downfall. Already, it has enabled us to destroy much of the natural environment irreparably and wage war on a planetary scale. Technology and exploration are seen as advancements, but what are we advancing towards if not our own doom? Larger and larger sweat pants would be my answer. I am considered one of the brighter members of my clan. Once a distant member/friend of the clan came for a visit. During the typical social meet and greet rituals one does upon first contact he said “Hi Bill, you are the smart one right?”. My reply was along the lines of “I suppose, but to be honest I rather be dumber and more happy”. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/52 "2013-05-05T13:45:48Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Yesterday, a friend who has a very bad knee due to gout was hobbling around the grocery store parking lot when a Jesus freak asked to pray for him and his knee. My friend told him he could pray for whatever he wants. This crackpot then told my friend he could heal pain through Jesus by touching, and could he touch his leg. My friend said no, and the crackpot lunged at his bad knee. My friend turned away only leading to the Jesus freak to shout prayers at the top of his voice while my friend drove away. More proof that religion relies on ignorance. :smack::smack: Not to single out Locrian, but this example does not illustrate what it purports to either. Regardless of whether “religion relies upon ignorance,” a person insisting that they can heal through touch indicates ignorance perhaps, but does not imply a dependent relationship between religion and ignorance, let alone proof of same. That is to say, the existence of a person who is both ignorant and religious proves little more than the fact that both conditions can occur concurrently. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/53 "2013-05-05T13:54:58Z")
> [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](#): > > I hope that poster wasn’t me. I admitted that after a few minutes of wikipedia it was clear that they weren’t related ( first line second paragraph ) but without any research it was possible that they were. My entire point was that not enough information was given to come to any conclusion about whether they were related given that one side had said they couldn’t be because they weren’t named the same. > > I really, really hope it wasn’t me. I even gave the last name of his last descendant which I wouldn’t have done had I entertained any thought that Ms Twain could ‘still’ be related. At that point, I’d clearly put the time in to know the answer was false and wasn’t trying to hide that fact. > > The kids were likely confusing her with the Hemingway granddaughters anyway. The whole conversation happened because I forgot (after having charitably interpreted his words) that the first Mark Twain commenter had said that there’s no chance the two are related. So you were responding by correctly pointing out there’s a non-zero chance they’re related, and I (because of how I understood the original comment’s intent, and because I’d forgotten how it was literally worded) misunderstood you to be saying the Twain/Clemens thing is irrelevant and that one needn’t doubt the familial relation _just_ because of the name change. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/54 "2013-05-05T14:09:21Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Truly stupid behavior, to me, is not based on IQ. It’s based on repeatedly failing to recognize or outright denying your limitations. Denying your limitations is a natural response to a society that condemns you for those limitations. If a person’s worth is measured by appearance, it should come as no surprise that a lot of time, energy, and other resources are spent on attempts to create the appearance that is most prized. If it is measured by intelligence, creating the impression of intelligence becomes tantamount. When Forrest Gump says “I’m not a smart man,” we know he’s not going to be a garden-variety idiot, because he does not pretend to be anything he’s not. The character was unique and refreshing for exactly this reason. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/55 "2013-05-05T14:13:31Z")
The average person has an IQ of 100. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/56 "2013-05-05T14:24:40Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > The whole conversation happened because I forgot (after having charitably interpreted his words) that the first Mark Twain commenter had said that there’s no chance the two are related. So you were responding by correctly pointing out there’s a non-zero chance they’re related, and I (because of how I understood the original comment’s intent, and because I’d forgotten how it was literally worded) misunderstood you to be saying the Twain/Clemens thing is irrelevant and that one needn’t doubt the familial relation _just_ because of the name change. That makes sense. It’s kinda funny that I looked like I was being a dumbass to you because you misread where I was coming from since you read the situation differently than I did. I’m guilty of that one a fair bit myself even though I try to be aware of it and not do it. Sometimes my thoughts run faster than my reflection on them. I wonder how many of the examples in this thread are like that. Probably some. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/57 "2013-05-05T14:33:51Z")
You should always aim to be the dumbest person in the room. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/58 "2013-05-05T14:38:31Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > People are constantly self-righteously bitching about how much they “hate stupid people” and how awful it is for them to have to deal with them. Of course usually the bitcher is at least as stupid as whomever is being bitched about, but naturally they are oblivious to their own idiocy. Regardless, others nod and chime in about the plague of stupidity that has infected everyone but them and the injustice that they too are forced to endure being surrounded by such morons. > Why is it socially acceptable to hold people responsible for their own intelligence? And why do people pretend to think that they think intelligence is such a desirable trait anyway? People like to feel like they themselves are intelligent, but it is obvious that as a society we value appearance, financial success, and athletic prowess far more than intelligence. > In keeping with the irrational contradictions, of course none of us have unintelligent children. They are all misunderstood geniuses with learning disabilities. I don’t think that intelligence is over rated per se. It’s just a convenient trait to claim possession of. You mention appearance, athletic prowess and financial success as being more valued but they’re not. They’re more admired and envied than valued . The thing is, most people can obviously see that they are hopelessly outclassed in their field by the athletic, the beautiful and the rich so there’s not much that they can use to hold themselves on a level with these people so they attack their intelligence which they hope will be easier to pass off than any other comparison. This gives the appearance that they’re over valuing intelligence but it’s really a ploy to give them something to feel superior about. It works both ways. You have the Absent Minded Professor or the Clumsy one where you denigrate them for not having your street smarts or mad athletic skills but it’s not as common for whatever reason. Maybe, it’s not worth mentioning that you’re dumber than them so next time you want to bag on the beautiful you’ll sound better. As for the opening of your post, people dislike people who inconvenience them in any way. Any one who inconveniences them for no good reason is stupid and they hate stupid people. I think that’s pretty much it. Of course we don’t hate stupid people, all forms of art are full of delightful and popular stupid people who usually make us feel better because we’re smarter than them. As long as they don’t get in our way, we like them fine. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/59 "2013-05-05T14:51:05Z")
Have you seen my baseball? ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456/60 "2013-05-05T14:58:12Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > You should always aim to be the dumbest person in the room. I suppose the fact that that is much more challenging for some of us than others makes sense, as the more difficult it is the better equipped one should be to meet that challenge. Still, there is at least one person with an impossible task. It’s also pretty selfish to always strive to position yourself to your own advantage, and if we all had the same goal, we couldn’t even gather in a room together anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-is-overrated/657456.md?page=4)