# Intelligence of Americans... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 20, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352 "2003-05-20T18:12:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![micco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f8ce5/32.png) [@micco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/micco)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/41 "2003-05-20T22:46:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by McDeath\_the\_Mad \* > \*\*So let me say a couple of things: \*\* None of which addressed my basic point that your question is unanswerable. I’m not criticizing you for asking the question, but either you have an agenda, in which case the question is rhetorical, or you’re interested in a factual answer, in which case there is none. ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/42 "2003-05-21T06:47:54Z")
Just wondering - was the test translated into the native languages of non English-speakers, to make it fair for them? (Am having visions of the Monty Python “intelligence of penguins vs. foreigners” sketch…) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/43 "2003-05-21T08:05:39Z")
Just my opinion, but I think that American public schools are a disaster. I agree that it is a matter of ignorance rather than intelligence. You question does not offend me in the least. Now that I’ve agreed with you and been really nice, would you send me a maple leaf patch to put on my jacket when I visit France? Now if I could just disguise my passport… ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/44 "2003-05-21T09:26:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Antonius Block \* > \*\*What you are probably remembering incorrectly is the fact that the southernmost point in Canada ( **not** Toronto, but Pelee Island, Ontario, in Lake Erie) is further south than parts of Northern California. California’s northern border is at 42 degrees N, and Pelee I. is at about 41 degrees 45 minutes N – making it further south than parts of twenty-six US States. > > Your mistake, of course, was not in getting the fact wrong, but in getting it wrong _while mocking other people’s ignorance_. > > Your excuse is undoubtedly that it’s really hard to build good bookshelves in your igloo, so your atlas collection is somewhat lacking. The nearest library is probably three days away by dog-sled, which could make fact-checking hard. \*\* But Antonius, Pelee Island is not Canada’s southern most point. Nuf said. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/45 "2003-05-21T09:32:22Z")
Don’t confuse _ignorance_ with _intelligence_. Someone can be perfectly clever but if, for whatever reason, they’ve never learned something, then they just won’t know it. Doesn’t necessarily make them thick. ---
**Author:** ![Flying\_Monk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@Flying\_Monk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flying_Monk)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/46 "2003-05-21T11:15:03Z")
I’m finding it a little hard to believe that more people in the SDMB don’t see most americans as being kind of stupid. I look at the TV, listen to the radio, read the newspapers, and meet people all the time…people are DUMB in this country. Look at who we’ve got running this circus, for Jeebus’ sake. As for the cause, I’d imagine it has a lot to do with the extensive propaganda system in this country, which even some quite intelligent & informed people with critical thinking skills aren’t aware of. “Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education.” - Bertrand Russell ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/47 "2003-05-21T12:06:09Z")
Ignorant or not. Skewed test or not - I still find it amazing that twice as many Swedes as Americans have a grasp about the size of the population in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/48 "2003-05-21T12:09:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flying\_Monk \* > \*\*I’m finding it a little hard to believe that more people in the SDMB don’t see most americans as being kind of stupid… > “Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education.” - Bertrand Russell \*\* To whom we comparing Americans? Yes, I see most Americans as kind of stupid- just like our brothers and sisters beyond the border. Note the quote- “Men.” Not Americans. Actually, I believe that in the U.S., as in other developed countries, the availability of a nutritious diet during the prenatal and early childhood stages may raise the collective IQ over that of more unfortunate nations. Likewise, the nearly universal education available here surely lowers the rate of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![micco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f8ce5/32.png) [@micco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/micco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/49 "2003-05-21T12:19:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flying\_Monk \* > **I’m finding it a little hard to believe that more people in the SDMB don’t see most americans as being kind of stupid.** I guess this is why every major technological advance in the last two centuries was made by non-Americans. It’s why the US doesn’t have a space program, a military-industrial research complex, or any home-grown medical reseach. It’s also why the US has to subcontract all significant intellectual property development offshore including the Internet itself. No wait… Note that I’m not saying that any of the things sarcastically listed above are exclusively US qualities. There’s plenty of technological and academic expertise around the world, and we wouldn’t be where we are now without global cooperation. However, I think these blanket statements that the US is ignorant, stupid, or any other characterization are pointlessly broad and misguided. Yes, the US education system has a lot of problems. Yes, tests indicate that, on average, Americans have substantially less knowledge of geography than the average of citizens in some other countries. But to take these failings and generalize that the US is across-the-board ignorant is to ignore all the accomplishments of its citizens, which is either ignorant in itself or intentionally biased. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/50 "2003-05-21T12:28:55Z")
I readily admit to being fairly ignorant about Canada. There are a lot of things I _should_ know but don’t because they haven’t felt like they’re that relevent to me yet. I do, however, know a lot more about Mexico. McDeath: “Maybe us Canadians aren’t as smart as I think…” You mean “_we_ Canadians…” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/51 "2003-05-21T12:52:47Z")
> [@](#): > > But Antonius, Pelee Island is not Canada’s southern most point. Nuf said. Well, it ain’t quite “nuf said” unless you fill us in on where you’re going to move the southernmost point of Canada. Are you going to move it back up to Point Pelee (since the island is not connected to the Canadain mainland)? Or are you going to hold out for some of the not-quite-named sandbars to the south of Pelee Island as the southernmost point? (Although, I guess Orlando or St. Petersburg might be in the running.) ---
**Author:** ![idol\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/94ad74/32.png) [@idol\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/idol_mind)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/52 "2003-05-21T13:06:06Z")
McDeath\_the\_Mad- I’m ashamed to be living in the same world as you…how can you be any more less inteligent. Okay, I watched a show on discovery channel the other day about tribes in Africa. According to your thinking, that means if there was a group of Africans who are in a tribe and live in the wilderness, then all people in Africa are tribe members and live in the wilderness. Give me a break. Think about things before you let people know how stupid you are by opening your mind to others. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/53 "2003-05-21T13:13:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*Well, it ain’t quite “nuf said” unless you fill us in on where you’re going to move the southernmost point of Canada. Are you going to move it back up to Point Pelee (since the island is not connected to the Canadain mainland)? Or are you going to hold out for some of the not-quite-named sandbars to the south of Pelee Island as the southernmost point? > (Although, I guess Orlando or St. Petersburg might be in the running.) \*\* The furthest south permanent (and sizable) land in Canada is Middle Island, which presently I believe is not inhabited (though don’t quote me on this), but has a history as a resort. The southern most Canadian boundary is south of Middle Island. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/54 "2003-05-21T13:45:05Z")
You’re right and I should have remembered that from when it was auctioned off a couple of years ago in Cleveland. (I think a Canadian nature group got it from an Ohio investment firm, but the details are kind of blurry.) We always sailed between Pelee Point and Island on the ore boats and I never saw the south side of Pelee Island. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/55 "2003-05-21T14:15:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by micco \* > **It’s why the US doesn’t have a space program, a military-industrial research complex, or any home-grown medical reseach.** Well, there are a lot of people (some American citizens included) who would characterize the first two examples as “kind of stupid”. ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/56 "2003-05-21T14:34:50Z")
> [@](#): > > how can you be any more less inteligent. Since someone has pointed out a grammar error, allow me to point out a spelling error that **idol mind** made. Now **idol mind** , I don’t quite get your point about the tribes in Africa. But I’ll say this, I’ll bet that in Africa if there are two tribes (and yes I know the continent of Africa is not made-up of nomadic tribles living in huts made of skinned animals) living in close proximity (lets call them Tribe A and Tribe B). Tribe A would probably know more of Tribe B’s customs and history (and vice versa) than Americans know about Canada’s customs and history. MtM ---
**Author:** ![Paradigm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Paradigm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paradigm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/57 "2003-05-21T14:39:51Z")
I think what idol mind means, is that you are looking at too small a sample to make a fully informed hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![micco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f8ce5/32.png) [@micco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/micco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/58 "2003-05-21T14:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by psychonaut \* > \*\*Well, there are a lot of people (some American citizens included) who would characterize the first two examples as “kind of stupid”. \*\* You might argue that the public policy issues of having those programs in the first place are stupid or misguided, but I hardly think you can say the accomplishments of the space program are stupid. From a public policy standpoint, the resources expended to go to the moon or build the shuttle may have been a bad deal and a stupid political decision, but I don’t think you can characterize the accomplishments of those programs as stupid or anything else other than brilliant and innovative. Sure there are problems and every program you can name is tainted by failures and political compromises. I’m not holding anything up as a paragon of genius. I’m just rebutting the blanket statement that the US is composed entirely (or on average) of dim-witted morons. I understand that it makes other countries feel good to knock the US for real or imagined failings. I don’t have a problem with that, and I’m not going to counter-attack and point out their staggering mediocrity. I also believe we should be realistic in our criticisms so we can address problems and solve them, so I’m not trying to sweep these embarassing test results under the rug. But this is obviously a case of what we used to call “white men can’t jump” criticism; it’s okay to say white guys can’t jump, but if you made a similar statement implying that any “protected” group had a similar failing (e.g. chicks can’t throw), you would be branded a bigot and worse, and rightfully so. If the OP was from a country who slightly outscored the Canadians on the geography survey and posted a comment that Canadians were ignorant fools because some of their college students don’t know the provinces of Elbonia, it would be obvious that was a gross and unfounded generalization. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/59 "2003-05-21T17:39:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*We always sailed between Pelee Point and Island on the ore boats and I never saw the south side of Pelee Island. \*\* For me it was the Algoway (summer job as the night cook). ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352/60 "2003-05-21T17:48:07Z")
I want to go on a date with Muffin, too. Oh, sorry, back to stupid Americans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intelligence-of-americans/176352.md?page=4)