# Intentional failures? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251 "2011-06-12T21:47:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/21 "2011-06-13T18:41:54Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > When I worked as an engineer for Motorola in the mid 1980s, there were some products that were developed that were known in advance to have very little chance to be a success. What they would do to see which new technologies would work is to put them all into a single product. The new product would look really cool and cutting edge which attracted the early adopters. There was no way that all of the new technologies would work, so the product would most likely be a dog. Some of the new technologies would work, though, and those would be put into other products which would be pretty good. That’s fascinating, could you be more specific, any product names? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/22 "2011-06-13T19:46:39Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Sometimes, musical artists record intentionally bad albums as a way of getting back at their label, who is forcing them to record another album, under conditions that the artist considers a crappy deal, to fulfill a contract. Many of them do not, preferring to phone it in with mediocrity, but occasionally it does rise to overt sabotage. Marvin Gaye initially set out to do this with the album [Here, My Dear](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here,_My_Dear). Gaye had just been through a painful and nasty divorce in which he’d agreed to give his ex half of the proceeds of his next album. He went into the studio with the intention of recording a crappy album full of nasty gibes at his ex, but ended up actually putting some emotion into it and using it as an outlet for everything that came out of the divorce. It flopped and was panned by both the public and critics (one critic colorfully compared listening to it to watching pus come out of his speakers), but in more recent years it’s received more critical respect. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/23 "2011-06-13T19:48:06Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > A moderately famous one, which involved fellow SDMB member **RealityChuck** , was the book [_Atlanta Nights_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Nights). > It accomplished its goal, so it wasn’t strictly speaking a failure, but the book was atrocious by design. That reminds me – pretty much the same thing: _[Naked Came the Stranger.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_Came_the_Stranger)_ ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/24 "2011-06-13T19:58:51Z")
The “Calling a Spade a Spade” award goes to [_Monty Python’s Contractual Obligation Album_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python's_Contractual_Obligation_Album). ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/25 "2011-06-13T20:13:26Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > The “Calling a Spade a Spade” award goes to [_Monty Python’s Contractual Obligation Album_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python's_Contractual_Obligation_Album). There are some genuinely funny bits on that one though. I don’t know that the album’s title really reflects why or how it was made. It seems to be just a “theme” under which they could make lawyer jokes. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/26 "2011-06-13T20:29:23Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Due to oddities in recent German tax laws, if you set things up right, a movie that lost money could produce a net tax advantage. Hence several [Uwe Boll](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_boll#Financing) films. My understanding is still that it’s more to their advantage if it DOES make money, it’s just still advantageous if it loses money. So Boll isn’t intentionally producing failures, his investors just don’t care either way. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/27 "2011-06-14T01:03:00Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > That’s fascinating, could you be more specific, any product names? I was working on components that went into pagers (remember those?) at the time. I was a newby engineer in 1983 put into a next generation quartz crystal production area. The quartz crystal, along with some other circuitry, would determine what channel (narrow range of radio frequencies) could receive information. The established technology at the time put all of that into a package about 2x1x0.5 inches, called a channel element. These channel elements were put into two way radios and pagers, but they took up a lot of space. If a two way radio had 8 channels, it had to have 8 channel elements inside of it. The new technology that I worked on used some interesting technology to put the entire channel element onto a single quartz blank, which fit into a device smaller than three dimes stacked on top of each other. This was one of the new technologies that went into a new pager that was about the size of two pens. At that time, pagers were about the size of a box of cigarettes and clipped onto the belt. Something that could be put into a shirt pocket was very desirable. Problem was, nobody knew if we could produce these new crystals in enough volume or a low enough cost. Also in this undersized pager were a few other next generation technologies that I was not privy to. One that was supposed to come along was a digital display that I don’t think they ever got to work. The “small” pager would only beep, and the user would call a number, enter his code number, and be given a message. The display would give the number that the user should call to connect with the person sending the page. After foundering for a long while, we got our act together in the quartz area. Some of the other technologies didn’t pan out, and that “small” pager was scrapped. The quartz crystal technology did keep advancing, though, and at the time that I left the company (around 1988) the device was smaller than a dime. I haven’t ripped open any Motorola cell phones, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that technology has continued to evolve and is in there. I think that I have a few of those old quartz crystals hanging around here somewhere. I think I also have the spec sheet from the “small” pager, but I would have to seriously search for that. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/28 "2011-06-14T01:09:38Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It’s no different than fast food restaurants selling some limited-time variant hamburger/chicken salad/taco/whatever. They may not even be failures; they may just be removed when time’s up so as to generate more demand the next time around. > > I know that I look forward to Whataburger bringing back the A1 Thick & Hearty burger, and Taco Cabana’s brisket tacos, and I know I’m not the only one, since they’ve been around 2-3 times so far. But Taco Cabana’s plan is more dastardly. They’re choosing to taunt me by not existing in Michigan at all, until the day they do, at which point my purchases will support the entire chain. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/29 "2011-06-14T01:10:27Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I don’t know about the the others, but I wouldn’t call the Osborne 1 a failure. It didn’t come from a company who could afford it, it sold pretty well, and it got lots of press, basically establishing the portable market. Its clunkiness was due to the technology, not trying to fail. Osborne crashed and burned when they announced the next generation too early. Everyone stopped buying the previous generation, and when they couldn’t ship the new product their revenues dried up. Perhaps that was a bad example. I don’t actually know how well the Osborne 1 sold, I kind of just assumed it wasn’t a success. I mean, I’ve never even seen one in person. Granted, I’m too young to have been around when they were out on the market, but I’ve seen lots and lots of old computers. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/30 "2011-06-14T01:10:40Z")
Missed the edit window. I’m not sure what happened to the other new technologies put into that “small” pager. The way that all of them came together, though, didn’t pan out so it was scrapped. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/31 "2011-06-14T01:44:37Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > My understanding of multiple brand variants is that it allows a brand to dominate more shelf space at the retail point. . . . the most blatant example–considering the size of the market–is Cheez-Its. I don’t think it works that way with cookies and crackers (also chips, bread, dairy products, and pop). At least in major markets, I now have the impression that Nabisco (or Keebler or Sunshine) “rents” a certain amount of shelf space and stocks it as they think best. So the line extensions such as Big Cheez-Its and White Cheddar are actually attempts to find new purchasers. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/32 "2011-06-14T02:14:03Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > How are experiments not intentional failures? You release an experimental product, not intending it to be anything but a failure commercially, in order to build on the technology/features for later products. An intentional failure with a purpose is still an intentional failure. There’s a big difference between having modest expectations for an experimental product’s success, and an intentional failure. I’ve worked on experimental products (for commercial use, not retail/consumer). Even though we knew our version 1 products had a lot of compromises and later versions would be different, they were still sold with the intention that they’d work and we’d make money off them. That was how we funded version 2. Our customers knew this. If we didn’t intend it to make money, there would have been no point in selling version 1, we’d just go straight to version 2. It’s easy to look at a failed product now and see, in hindsight, that it was doomed. But that doesn’t mean it was obvious at the time. ---
**Author:** ![UncleFred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@UncleFred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleFred)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/33 "2011-06-14T03:56:49Z")
First - not exactly a product - but did you ever see “The Producers” - and their search for “a guanteed flop.” ? Granted that’s fiction. For non-fiction, to fill out a diverse product line, companies will sometimes add a product they know they aren’t going to make money on. It’s sort of a “loss-leader”. This may be just to meet the customer base’s expectations, or to prevent other companies from making inroads to their customer base. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/34 "2011-06-14T12:03:43Z")
The popular Australian yeast bread spread Vegemite came up with a new product, with a blend of cream cheese and called it “iSnack 2.0”. “The choice immediately drew universal criticism and ridicule within Australia. Within days, opinion columns and social networking sites were flooded with derision and vitriol.” (wikipedia) I find it hard to believe choosing this name could have been an accident. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/35 "2011-06-14T12:15:35Z")
> [@UncleFred](#): > > First - not exactly a product - but did you ever see “The Producers” - and their search for “a guanteed flop.” ? > > Granted that’s fiction. I [don’t think](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13907885&postcount=3) [anybody](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13910336&postcount=10) [mentioned](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13910421&postcount=13) it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/36 "2011-06-14T12:27:37Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > The “Calling a Spade a Spade” award goes to [_Monty Python’s Contractual Obligation Album_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python's_Contractual_Obligation_Album). This certainly wasn’t “intentionally bad.” It had a lot of fantastic tracks: [ul] [li]Sit on My Face[/li][li]I Like Chinese[/li][li]Medical Love Song (the one about venereal disease)[/li][li]Finland (later used in “Spamalot”)[/li][li]I’m So Worried (which plays through my head every single time I’m waiting for my bag to appear in Heathrow airport)[/li][li]I Bet You They Won’t Play This Song on the Radio[/li][li]Bookshop[/li][li]Rock Notes - which included “Toad the Wet Sprocket”[/li][li]Decomposing Composers[/li][/ul] Amongst others. All classic Python. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/37 "2011-06-14T12:34:51Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > My understanding is still that it’s more to their advantage if it DOES make money, it’s just still advantageous if it loses money. So Boll isn’t intentionally producing failures, his investors just don’t care either way. Still, you’d think they’d pick other horses to invest in, a new one each time. Who knows ? The new random guy might come up with a masterpiece that would make the investment exponentially profitable. Uwe Boll sure as shit never will. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/38 "2011-06-14T12:40:44Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Also, there are instances of players doing peculiar things to run out the clock towards the end of games to run out the clock rather than trying to score. Running out the clock is not really striving to fail though. Since every offensive runs the risk of explosively turning into a counter-offensive, it makes strategic sense not to try to score more when you’re already leading. As the French saying goes: “Better is the enemy of good enough”. Or to put it the American way, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it ;). ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/39 "2011-06-14T12:49:58Z")
This gets into conspiracy theory territory, but I think some industries hold off on investing and hiring until a more (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) favorable political climate can be engineered. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/40 "2011-06-14T14:49:54Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > Perhaps that was a bad example. I don’t actually know how well the Osborne 1 sold, I kind of just assumed it wasn’t a success. I mean, I’ve never even seen one in person. Granted, I’m too young to have been around when they were out on the market, but I’ve seen lots and lots of old computers. Agreed with **Voyager** that the Osborne 1 is an example of a _successful_ portable computer. I was around when they were on the market, and probably sold a couple of them myself. (Computer retail was my high school job at the time.) Also agreed though that you hardly see them around today, as the kind of retro machines that attract interest like the Apple II and Commodore 64 (and many others). I’d say that’s because they were strictly business computers, and pretty charmless. They weren’t the fun home, hobby, and school computers that inspire adoration. Only businessmen would have owned them, and so probably wouldn’t have saved them in great numbers when they became obsolete. After the IBM PC became a big hit, and especially after the [Compaq Portable](http://oldcomputers.net/compaqi.html) arrived, interest in the Osborne dried up almost overnight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251.md?page=3)