# Intentional failures? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251 "2011-06-12T21:47:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/41 "2011-06-14T15:26:59Z")
> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > This certainly wasn’t “intentionally bad.” It had a lot of fantastic tracks: > > \ > > Amongst others. All classic Python. I’ll defer to you and **Bytegeist** on this one. While I recalled the name from years back, I can’t say I’m familiar with the content. The wiki page I linked states: > [@](#): > > As the title suggests, the album was put together to complete a contract with Charisma Records. At least one of the skits on the album (“Bookshop,” also called “Bookshop Sketch”) predates the group itself, having been performed on the ITV series At Last the 1948 Show in 1967. …which seems to suggest that the album was hastily thrown together with minimal effort. But then, it _is_ wikipedia… ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/42 "2011-06-14T16:57:58Z")
The great Van Morrison had to make an album to fulfill his contract with Bang Records in 1967. He improvised 31 songs during a single session, most between a minute and a minute-and-a-half long. The first five songs were all variations of the same thing: Twist and Shake, Shake and Roll, Stomp and Scream, Scream and Holler, Jump and Thump… then he really got creative with tunes like “Want a Danish?”, “You Say France and I Whistle”, and “Ring Worm.” Story and songs available online from many sources, [including this one](http://web.archive.org/web/20051212132541/http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2005/09/van_morrisons_c.html). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/43 "2011-06-14T17:35:36Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > There’s a big difference between having modest expectations for an experimental product’s success, and an intentional failure. > > I’ve worked on experimental products (for commercial use, not retail/consumer). Even though we knew our version 1 products had a lot of compromises and later versions would be different, they were still sold with the intention that they’d work and we’d make money off them. That was how we funded version 2. Our customers knew this. If we didn’t intend it to make money, there would have been no point in selling version 1, we’d just go straight to version 2. > > It’s easy to look at a failed product now and see, in hindsight, that it was doomed. But that doesn’t mean it was obvious at the time. I think for semi-experimental products, there’s also an awareness that they may be half-baked or too early for the market, so success is defined a little differently than just making money- there’s defining the interface for a class of product, there’s identifying the actual market, there’s identifying major pitfalls, etc… all of which may be successful, even if the product isn’t classically successful. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/44 "2011-06-14T18:01:13Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Running out the clock is not really striving to fail though. Since every offensive runs the risk of explosively turning into a counter-offensive, it makes strategic sense not to try to score more when you’re already leading. As the French saying goes: “Better is the enemy of good enough”. Or to put it the American way, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it ;). And, in the case of sports like football, continuing to run plays rather than running out the clock increases the risk that one or more of your players could get injured thereby making them unavailable to play in the next game or games. That’s why when you’re in this position, it’s best to take a snap and fall on the ball a few times rather than continue to run a superfluous offensive drive that ends up in the loss of your quarterback or running back for the season. [It also prevents disasters like this from happening.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-FI28rJamY&feature=related) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/45 "2011-06-14T18:42:55Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > Perhaps that was a bad example. I don’t actually know how well the Osborne 1 sold, I kind of just assumed it wasn’t a success. I mean, I’ve never even seen one in person. Granted, I’m too young to have been around when they were out on the market, but I’ve seen lots and lots of old computers. You can find a photo at the bottom of [this page](http://www.atariarchives.org/deli/memoirs_of_an_osborne.php). Note that the article and the photo are from 1984. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/46 "2011-06-14T19:21:34Z")
Bit of a tangent - sort of related to bands putting out deliberately shit albums - The labour party manifesto for the 1983 UK general election was memorably termed the '[the longest suicide note in history’](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_longest_suicide_note_in_history). It articulated a number of left wing policies that the country had no appetite for, behind an unelectable labour party leader going up against an ascendant Margaret Thatcher, and weighed in at 700 (!) pages. It’s been said that the right and more centrist elements of the party, seeing how hopeless things were, just stood back and let the left have free rein. Result - labour were decimated at the polls and the left of the party was buried as a mainstream political voice. They have yet to re-emerge. Whilst that’s just an anecdotal rumour, and maybe a convenient one given the eventual re-positioning of the party in the middle ground under John Smith and then Tony Blair, the manifesto seems such an incredulous thing to lay before the electorate that you have to believe some labour MPs had the true measure of it. ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/47 "2011-06-14T19:36:22Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > In addition, there’s the **Major League** scenario where a team tanks a whole season to drive down attendance thereby giving the owners an excuse to move the franchise to a new city on grounds of lack of fan support. This was strongly suspected as happening during the Supersonics’ last season in Seattle before they moved to Oklahoma City. Given the OKC Thunder opened their first season with an absolutely horrendous record (something like 5 wins and 30 losses), I doubt their poor play down the stretch in Seattle was intentional. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/48 "2011-06-14T21:31:47Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Running out the clock is not really striving to fail though. Since every offensive runs the risk of explosively turning into a counter-offensive, it makes strategic sense not to try to score more when you’re already leading. As the French saying goes: “Better is the enemy of good enough”. Or to put it the American way, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it ;). This is true, but I’m speaking of plays like [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkrRTYbVmpU), where Brian Westbrook intentionally failed to score a touchdown which would have given his team a 16-6 (probably 17-6 with the extra point) lead, instead kneeling on the ball to run out the clock. It might have been strategic, but it was definitely peculiar and an intentional failure. Fantasy football players and bookies the world over must have lost their minds when he did that. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251/49 "2011-06-15T01:14:25Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > I’ll defer to you and **Bytegeist** on this one. While I recalled the name from years back, I can’t say I’m familiar with the content. The wiki page I linked states:…which seems to suggest that the album was hastily thrown together with minimal effort. But then, it _is_ wikipedia… Don’t record companies reject obvious crappy offerings and insist upon a higher quality of recordings? I could see putting together an album filled with actual songs of the approximate length with actual instruments played and the band members actually singing, but no decent record company will accept a record filled with static, car doors banging, dogs barking, etc., as a legitimate album unless the recording artist is already known for those sounds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intentional-failures/585251.md?page=2)