# Inter-famial marriage & incest in the ancient pre-OT/Pre-Koranic middle east cultures **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 21, 2009, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inter-famial-marriage-incest-in-the-ancient-pre-ot-pre-koranic-middle-east-cultures/486839 "2009-02-21T11:18:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inter-famial-marriage-incest-in-the-ancient-pre-ot-pre-koranic-middle-east-cultures/486839/1 "2009-02-21T11:18:37Z")
I was looking[at this table](http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read1/r00366.html)of allowable relations referencing OT Bible rules and wondered at the statement that > [@](#): > > This is a complete list of the marriages that God forbids. This list includes those found in Leviticus 20:11-21; Deuteronomy 22:30; Deuteronomy 27:20-23; and 1 Corinthians 5:1. But marriage with a first cousin is not prohibited. It should be noted that God does not prohibit marriage with a brother’s wife in the case of a Leverite marriage (Deut. 25:10). Before God established these laws, marriage between brothers and sisters was allowed. For example, Abraham married his half-sister (Gen. 20:12). What governed who could marry or boink who in these ancient pre-Old Testament / Koranic middle east cultures? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inter-famial-marriage-incest-in-the-ancient-pre-ot-pre-koranic-middle-east-cultures/486839/2 "2009-02-21T13:39:39Z")
With absolutely no authority or research, i would say “proximity.” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inter-famial-marriage-incest-in-the-ancient-pre-ot-pre-koranic-middle-east-cultures/486839/3 "2009-02-21T13:57:56Z")
There was probably a local village/tribal leader who put his seal of approval on marriages. Marriages were probably pretty much arranged in the early teen years, so love almost certainly played second fiddle to the parents’ wishes. I don’t think there are any societies where brother-sister marriage is common. But even up to a few centuries ago brother-sister marriages were sometimes found among royalty in an attempt to keep the royal title in the family. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inter-famial-marriage-incest-in-the-ancient-pre-ot-pre-koranic-middle-east-cultures/486839/4 "2009-02-21T14:41:40Z")
I seem to remember that in Sigmund Freud’s book ‘Totem & Taboo’ he says that one purpose of totemic tribal identification was to show who would be a legitimate mate i.e members of the Squirrel tribe could legitimately have it away with those of the Beaver clan, as they’d be genetically distant enough. I may be misremembering, in which case, apologies. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inter-famial-marriage-incest-in-the-ancient-pre-ot-pre-koranic-middle-east-cultures/486839/5 "2009-02-21T17:05:46Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > There was probably a local village/tribal leader who put his seal of approval on marriages. Marriages were probably pretty much arranged in the early teen years, so love almost certainly played second fiddle to the parents’ wishes. > > I don’t think there are any societies where brother-sister marriage is common. But even up to a few centuries ago brother-sister marriages were sometimes found among royalty in an attempt to keep the royal title in the family. **Chortle**. For the most part marriages were love marriages. always. ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inter-famial-marriage-incest-in-the-ancient-pre-ot-pre-koranic-middle-east-cultures/486839/6 "2009-02-21T18:26:50Z")
I am almost (but not 100%) sure that pre-Qur’an Arab tribes usually only enforced the rule that you marry outside of the nomadic group that you were going around with, and that they generally married in the same tribe. FWIW, Muhammad and his first wife Khadija were both of the Banu Hashim clan of the Quraysh tribe (by this point not really “nomadic,” as they were the custodians of Mecca and the Ka’aba) and were related in some nebulous way. Various nomadic tribes had different rules for this sort of thing. Traditionally the Kazakhs can only marry someone 7 generations removed from them. That normally tight clan structures would, for the purposes of marriage, go so far away to find mates, seems to me to be a sign that they were at least primordially aware of the dangers of inbreeding. I think people naturally evolved to favor genetic variation and so they practiced that to the extent that it was practical (Sometimes there’s no one around but that cousin… I shuddered just typing that…), and this is reflected in rules governing who one can marry. I would say that restrictions against marrying someone too distant, on the other hand, are more easily attributed to ideological reasons. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inter-famial-marriage-incest-in-the-ancient-pre-ot-pre-koranic-middle-east-cultures/486839/7 "2009-02-21T18:33:32Z")
Muhammad was of one tribe in Hijaz; a very Roman influenced area (and still technically subject to Byzantine overlordship). Someone in say South Iraq would be more influenced by Sassiniad traditions. Anyone on the Euphrates had the added complication of Legionairres and Cataphracts needing stress relief. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inter-famial-marriage-incest-in-the-ancient-pre-ot-pre-koranic-middle-east-cultures/486839/8 "2009-02-21T18:57:47Z")
And incidentally, she was a businesswoman for whom he worked for a time for, and she asked him to marry her. It was quite a step up, for an orphaned, young man with little influence, to marry a wealthy widow.