# Interesction right of way question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034 "2016-01-13T14:41:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/22 "2016-01-14T16:31:37Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > If I understand your description correctly, they’re not really the same stop line; the turning lane has already diverged, as it were, and is meant to be separately controlled. You’re correct, they are separate. > [@](#): > > The light is for the through-lanes, the stop sign for the turning lane. Turning vehicles should stop before turns regardless of the light. I’ve worked in that office park about thirty years and NOBODY, including the police (precinct on that right corner) EVER stops or even slows for the stop sign when the light is green. Hundreds of cars are leaving around 5 pm on to a very busy road and the traffic would likely back up so much, they wouldn’t even be able to get out of their parking lots. A yield sign would be the right control there. One of these days I’ll stop in the precinct and ask them about it. [Intersection leaving office park](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8123136,-73.4867048,3a,66.8y,347.86h,87.5t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1srQs73HleoBMv89eOxCW6YA!2e0) ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/23 "2016-01-14T16:36:44Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > And then this, the actual situation in the OP, is a different kettle of fish. It’s all clearly in the intersection. I’m wondering why in the world is there a yield sign there. It seems like both vehicles should yield – the left-turner, because it’s turning left into an intersection, and the right-turner, because it has a yield sign. Don’t make no sense. ☹ I suspect the sign “left turn yield on green” is a reminder like “hey, this isn’t the same as a protected left turn with the arrow.” But I wonder if both sides having a yield creates a double negative if you will, so that they are on equal footing and should revert to standard left turn yields to everyone else rules. This intersection has been this way for years and isn’t the epicenter of a lot of accidents. But it is small enough that you can see the facial expressions of people from both directions who seem to think the other guy is an idiot or a maniac to paraphrase George Carlan. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/24 "2016-01-14T16:37:19Z")
It does look like the stop sign is unnecessary. They should take it down; people should not think that a red octagon is an optional or conditional notice. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/25 "2016-01-14T16:39:59Z")
It’s a poorly signed intersection, but I think the yield sign is supposed to be for those turning right on red, not right on green. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/26 "2016-01-14T16:58:54Z")
I wasn’t being flip with my answer, though it may have sounded that way. That yield sign is saying, “if someone’s already in the intersection, you gotta yield to him”. On the green ball, the right-turning car has the right-of-way over the left-turning car. However, if the car turns left in-front of him, he now has to yield to them. Also consider that if a conflict arises, it’s safer for him (right-turner) to yield than for the left-turner to hit the brakes and stop in the middle of the road to keep from hitting the right-turner. **SmellMyWort** said it well, too. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/27 "2016-01-14T17:09:41Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > It does look like the stop sign is unnecessary. They should take it down; people should not think that a red octagon is an optional or conditional notice. Your comment regarding taking it down made me rethink my idea of replacing with a yield sign. [After Stop Right Turn Permitted On Red](https://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/14663158451) would be a better choice ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/28 "2016-01-14T17:20:44Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > This is pretty much what I thought the OP was describing. My thought is that the right turn lane, being separated from the heart of the intersection by a small island, is not actually part of the intersection. It’s more like an on-ramp that joins the cross street. > > So back to the OP, the vehicle turning left must yield to vehicles in or about to enter the intersection, but is not required to yield to vehicles in this right-turn ramp. Those vehicles must yield to vehicles on the cross street. > > And then this, the actual situation in the OP, is a different kettle of fish. It’s all clearly in the intersection. I’m wondering why in the world is there a yield sign there. It seems like both vehicles should yield – the left-turner, because it’s turning left into an intersection, and the right-turner, because it has a yield sign. Don’t make no sense. ☹ We both thought the OP was talking about a channelized turn lane, but he isn’t. It’s just weird. It’s also wrong to have a yield sign in a signaled intersection like the OP’s. The current Uniform Manual on Traffic Control Devices says: > [@](#): > > Because the potential for conflicting commands could create driver confusion, YIELD or STOP signs shall not be used in conjunction with any traffic control signal operation, except in the following cases: > A. If the signal indication for an approach is a flashing red at all times; > B. If a minor street or driveway is located within or adjacent to the area controlled by the traffic control signal, but does not require separate traffic signal control because an extremely low potential for conflict exists; or > C. If a channelized turn lane is separated from the adjacent travel lanes by an island and the channelized turn lane is not controlled by a traffic control signal. None of these situations apply. States can adopt different standards if they want but I’d be surprised that any state recommends the abomination the OP is dealing with. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/29 "2016-01-14T17:23:05Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It’s a poorly signed intersection, but I think the yield sign is supposed to be for those turning right on red, not right on green. Every driver should understand that a right on red is allowed only after a full stop and after yielding to all traffic in the intersection. If they don’t understand that, the yield sign isn’t likely to help them. It is more likely to confuse everyone who does understand that. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/30 "2016-01-14T19:19:01Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Every driver should understand that a right on red is allowed only after a full stop and after yielding to all traffic in the intersection. If they don’t understand that, the yield sign isn’t likely to help them. It is more likely to confuse everyone who does understand that. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/31 "2016-01-14T19:28:04Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > There’s a local intersection here that is configured similarly, except the right hand turning lane has a stop sign. When the light is green, nobody stops for the stop sign. Very bizarre to have both a traffic light and a stop sign at the same stop line. Looking at your link I bet there is very little traffic coming out of that residential complex. A yield would be just fine there. Unlike the OP’s intersection where the yield sign is completely unneeded and only complicates things. In that case, if the right-turner is close enough to turning that they need to yield to avoid hitting the left-turner, then the left-turner shouldn’t have turned in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/32 "2016-01-14T21:38:54Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > Looking at your link I bet there is very little traffic coming out of that residential complex. Very little traffic coming out of there. They get their own green after the green leaving the office park (behind the camera’s pov). ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/33 "2016-01-14T22:02:47Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Every driver should understand that a right on red is allowed only after a full stop and after yielding to all traffic in the intersection. If they don’t understand that, the yield sign isn’t likely to help them. It is more likely to confuse everyone who does understand that. I agree with that, but I also don’t underestimate the ability of street planners to assume everyone is an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/34 "2016-01-14T23:00:06Z")
> [@rainy](#): > > Yes it is. > > Here is a link to some views combined into a single picture. > > [https://picasaweb.google.com/113640496318919632413/Intersection?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNu53bKErKTD7wE&feat=directlink](https://picasaweb.google.com/113640496318919632413/Intersection?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNu53bKErKTD7wE&feat=directlink) That link is insisting that I sign in before I can look at pictures. ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/35 "2016-01-15T01:31:41Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > That link is insisting that I sign in before I can look at pictures. Sorry, I rarely ever post picts here so I don’t know what to do to make them easier to view. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/36 "2016-01-15T02:23:40Z")
I see it fine. Maybe it wants you to sign in to Google. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/37 "2016-01-15T02:50:33Z")
> [@SigMan](#): > > I see it fine. Me too. > [@](#): > > Maybe it wants you to sign in to Google. I assumed I can because I did sign up for Picasa, though I never use it. ---
**Author:** ![rainy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@rainy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rainy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/38 "2016-01-15T03:31:43Z")
Is there a preferred service to use for this sort of thing? ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034/39 "2016-01-15T03:41:25Z")
> [@rainy](#): > > Is there a preferred service to use for this sort of thing? According to [this](http://lifehacker.com/5808625/five-best-web-sites-for-image-hosting-and-photo-sharing/) site, Google+ Photos and Flickr are pretty highly recommended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesction-right-of-way-question/743034.md?page=1)