# Interested in languages? Stay the hell away from Bill Bryson! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 7, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308 "2003-06-07T17:40:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/1 "2003-06-07T17:40:18Z")
I enjoyed Bryson’s travelogue Lost Continent, so while at the library I picked up his book on the evolution of the English language, Mother Tongue. This book is utter crap. I found factual errors, urban myths, and folk etymologies on nearly every page. Some of the “wisdom” he imparts to layman readers who sadly might not know he’s full of crap: - Russian has no words for “engagement ring”, “efficiency”, or “to have fun.” This one sent my Russian-speaking fiancee into lengthly laughter. \, if only could explain to her family what that thing is on her finger. :rolleyes: - Finnish has no profanity whatsoever. Its only term of exasperation is bizarrely the phrase “in the restaurant!” - Hardly one chapter into the book he pulls out the old great Eskimo vocabulary hoax and passes it off as gospel truth. - And before the book’s end, he swears a British government official in 1989 said “If English is good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me.” Of course, that story has been attributed to hundreds of people over the last hundred years, from the governor of Texas to an anonymous missionary in Africa. - He repeatedly cites Mario Pei as a great linguist, though Pei is essentially the Bill Bryson of the 50’s whose works have been condemned by many linguists as craptacular pieces of myth and oversimplification. - He asserts that Germans are naturally cruel because their language has the word “schadenfreude”. A look at the biography page will show that Bryson has no formal training in linguistics (he doesn’t even have a university degree). He’s just a journalist who apparently loathes fact-checking. Anyone else read this man’s language works. I hear he has another book about English called “Made in America”. Is that one just as bad? UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/2 "2003-06-07T17:52:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UnuMondo \* > \*\*\* Finnish has no profanity whatsoever. \*\* PERRRRRRKELE! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/3 "2003-06-07T17:58:45Z")
I liked Bill Bryson’s _A Walk in the Woods_ and was looking forward to reading the one that you are referring to. Thank goodness you saved me a bit of money. I first heard “If it’s good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me” about forty years ago. I feel certain that it is much older than that. Such carelessness is inexcusable. ---
**Author:** ![Kantalooppi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@Kantalooppi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kantalooppi)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/4 "2003-06-07T18:17:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Finnish has no profanity whatsoever. Its only term of exasperation is bizarrely the phrase “in the restaurant!” Vetäköön saatanan kulliaivo vitun päähänsä ravintolassa perkele. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/5 "2003-06-07T18:37:24Z")
(very nervously) Do I _want_ to ask for a translation there? ---
**Author:** ![ConnieS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@ConnieS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ConnieS)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/6 "2003-06-07T18:50:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by UnuMondo \* > \*\*\* Finnish has no profanity whatsoever._\* Well, I can’t debunk that quite as thoroughly as some of the Finnish-speaking posters to this board, but [this](http://www.notam02.no/~hcholm/altlang/ht/Finnish.html) might help. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/7 "2003-06-07T19:58:54Z")
I’m not familiar with Mr. Bryson, but is there any chance you could have been whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/8 "2003-06-07T20:06:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*I’m not familiar with Mr. Bryson, but is there any chance you could have been whooshed? \*\* No, not unless the entire book is one big whoosh. Seriously, the man reports all of this as fact. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/9 "2003-06-07T20:19:13Z")
You think that’s bad, check out _The Story of English_. It’s so full of inaccuracies even Bill Bryson rubbishes it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/10 "2003-06-07T20:23:23Z")
Yeah, that’s what I meant. If there’re that many whopping errors in the book, maybe the “joke” is that it’s a very bad book on linguistics. Is Bryson known for being funny? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/11 "2003-06-07T20:29:31Z")
No, Miller. It’s definitely not a(n intentionally) satirical book. ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/12 "2003-06-07T21:41:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*You think that’s bad, check out _The Story of English_. It’s so full of inaccuracies even Bill Bryson rubbishes it. \*\* You mean the Mario Pei The Story of English? I don’t know why Bryson rubbishes it, because he used it to back up a lot of his claims in Mother Tongue. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/13 "2003-06-07T22:35:19Z")
So can anybody suggest a history of English that’s actually good? ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/14 "2003-06-07T22:45:33Z")
**rjk** : _ **A History of the English Language** _ by Albert C. Baugh & Thomas Cable ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/15 "2003-06-07T23:58:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*You think that’s bad, check out _The Story of English_. It’s so full of inaccuracies even Bill Bryson rubbishes it. \*\* Which _Story of English_? McCrum, Cran, McNeil? Or some other book? I second _A History of the English Language_. Fortuitously, it was the textbook of one of my college English courses, and I’ve referred back to and re-read this book countless times in the years since. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/16 "2003-06-08T00:34:38Z")
I like the _Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language_, which is a large book but extremely well written and broken down into many chapters so that it doesn’t get overwhelming. There’s a [trade paperback version](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521559677/qid=1055032698/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/103-3127948-6900650?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) that’s not even expensive. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/17 "2003-06-08T01:11:47Z")
The Story of English which was made into a TV programme. Don’t remember who wrote it, just remember laughing hysterically as I tried to read it before finally giving up and chucking the thing. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/18 "2003-06-08T01:13:51Z")
> [@](#): > > A History of the English Language by Albert C. Baugh & Thomas Cable Woohoo! I had Professor Cable for my History of the English Language class. You’ll find this text a lot dryer than any Bill Bryson books though. There’s also “The English Language: A Historical Introduction” by Charles Barber. Funnily enough, I just picked up the Cambridge Encyclopaedia of Language at a used bookstore a couple weeks ago. I keep it in the bathroom. You would be surprised at how many linguists recommend the Bill Bryson book. At UT it was a required textbook for one of the “please please change your major to Linguistics” intro classes. -fh ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/19 "2003-06-08T01:45:55Z")
We’ve recently done Bryson as a funny read in this thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185538&highlight=bryson](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185538&highlight=bryson) He sucks as a linguist, as the OP says. In Spades. **Shoddy** comes to mind as a word. ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308/20 "2003-06-08T02:08:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\*He sucks as a linguist, as the OP says. In Spades. > > **Shoddy** comes to mind as a word. \*\* The man’s a journalist. And not just a podunk small-town newspaper contributor, but a man who has worked at large newspapers like the Financial Times. It reflects poorly on his capabilities in his day job if he publishes book which are totally lacking fact-checking. UnuMondo [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interested-in-languages-stay-the-hell-away-from-bill-bryson/180308.md?page=2)