# Interesting observation about female attractiveness and gender obsession. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 24, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596 "2014-01-24T04:28:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![citizenzen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@citizenzen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/citizenzen)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/21 "2014-01-24T16:37:32Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > Generally speaking, as I was researching for the 2013 nominations for the most attractive female journalist … Why in the world is there a contest for the most attractive female journalist? The contest alone could be fodder for a feminist writer to tackle. But here’s one possible explanation to the OP … Since women are judged so much by their looks, those who aren’t blessed with beauty have lived their lives enduring an endless variety of slights, insults, missed opportunities, etc. Through this experience they’ve become acutely aware of the social cost of being less attractive as well as the unfairness of being judged for one’s looks instead of one’s talents and effort. It would seem natural to me that this experience would lead one to seek to change a system that was hurtful and unjust, and since we’re referring to journalists, this would find expression through the investigation and exposing of the issue through their writing and reporting. Just as I wouldn’t expect a rich man to be the best person to talk about the experience of being poor, I wouldn’t expect a beautiful woman to be the most likely champion of feminist causes. That doesn’t mean that those people can’t be found. But it would explain the trend that the OP thinks they discovered. People directly experiencing injustice and unfairness are more likely the ones to be talking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/22 "2014-01-24T16:40:11Z")
While I hesitate to even respond to the OP’s goofy ideas (my wife is a hardcore feminist and hot as hell, thanks), I’ll just point out that Amanda Hess writes about [lots of things](http://www.slate.com/authors.amanda_hess.html). ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/23 "2014-01-24T16:52:42Z")
As an actual unattractive female, I wish people would stop calling not-cover-model women “unattractive.” Call them “plain” or “not quite stunning but cute” or something. Fuck, let us have SOMETHING to ourselves. Same with calling size 8 women “fat.” I am fat. I win. Those girls do not get to play! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/24 "2014-01-24T16:56:58Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > 1974 called. It wants it’s “ugly feminists” meme back. 1974? It’s [older](http://kasiaredux.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/suffragette4.jpg?w=239&h=388) [than](http://kasiaredux.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/sufragette6.jpg?w=500) [that](http://kasiaredux.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/suffragette3use.jpg?w=500). Ok, the middle one is just "feminists are sluts, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/25 "2014-01-24T17:15:34Z")
Speaking of 1974 and how much a woman writes about feminism and gender, I thought [Gloria Steinem](http://aliciaashcroft.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/makers-02_steinemms.jpg) had pretty much busted that myth. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/26 "2014-01-24T17:28:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > 1974 called. It wants it’s “ugly feminists” meme back. I don’t think that’s entirely fair. The OP might not be expressed too tactfully, but I don’t see why it is so sexist to point out the fact that more attractive women probably suffer less discrimination, and are therefore less likely to write about being discriminated against. Of course there are always going to be counter-examples to such a nebulous postulation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/27 "2014-01-24T17:34:47Z")
More attractive women suffer _different_ discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/28 "2014-01-24T17:55:50Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I don’t think that’s entirely fair. The OP might not be expressed too tactfully, but I don’t see why it is so sexist to point out the fact that more attractive women probably suffer less discrimination, and are therefore less likely to write about being discriminated against. The thing is, it’s often not explicitly sexist in that situation, it’s looks-ist or discrimination against people who don’t fit the mold. I actually think a lot of the anti-gay vitriol isn’t directed so much against what they do in their bedrooms, but rather against the idea of bull-dyke lesbians and stereotypical effete gay men. That’s where a lot of the anti-feminist anger comes from- they don’t play ball within the social norms for how women are supposed to behave and dress, not because the vast majority of people are that intellectually opposed to equality. ---
**Author:** ![kstarnes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4da419/32.png) [@kstarnes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kstarnes)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/29 "2014-01-24T18:01:18Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > **Lindy West** , who writes for Jezebel and Slate and The Stranger and other things, is about as feminist as you get online these days - and I think [she’s insanely cut](http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1987lwp2y7hk1jpg/original.jpg)e. Of course, she still gets tons of hate mail calling her fat and gross, but some people just can’t make it through life without shitting on people. Uhh, Lindy West is not a good counter-example. May I offer my own? Jessica Valenti. Here is Lindy West [http://cdn02.cdnwp.thefrisky.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/02/lindy-west-400x300.jpg](http://cdn02.cdnwp.thefrisky.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/02/lindy-west-400x300.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/30 "2014-01-24T18:20:53Z")
Not all writing on gender is about looks, and not very little discrimination is about looks. It’s not like ugly ladies never need maternity leave. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/31 "2014-01-24T18:25:03Z")
> [@Osiris\_the\_1st](#): > > Have you ever noticed that it’s the most unattractive men that fear/complain about feminism. Hey, **kstarnes** - Osiris might be on to something. Post your picture in the nudes thread so we can judge if you’re hot enough that we need to care about your opinions on feminine beauty. ---
**Author:** ![citizenzen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@citizenzen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/citizenzen)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/32 "2014-01-24T19:50:19Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Not all writing on gender is about looks, and not very little discrimination is about looks. It’s not like ugly ladies never need maternity leave. Very little discrimination is about looks? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/33 "2014-01-24T20:26:11Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Not all writing on gender is about looks, and not very little discrimination is about looks. It’s not like ugly ladies never need maternity leave. Yeah, the uglies never get knocked up 'cause nobody will fuck 'em. Amirite? 🆒 This is satire and not my actual view. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/34 "2014-01-24T21:07:47Z")
> [@citizenzen](#): > > Very little discrimination is about looks? > > Seriously? Yeah. Debates about birth control are not about looks. The glass ceiling isn’t about looks. Roles for women in the military isn’t about looks. Hiring practices regarding maternity leave is not about looks. Whether or not a female politician is qualified/voteable is not about looks (at its core). If you have a shallow existence and don’t think too hard about discrimination and inequality then perhaps most discrimination is about looks, for you. But for real people doing things in the real world, who are over 18, it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![citizenzen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@citizenzen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/citizenzen)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/35 "2014-01-24T21:23:27Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Yeah. Debates about birth control are not about looks. The glass ceiling isn’t about looks. Roles for women in the military isn’t about looks. Hiring practices regarding maternity leave is not about looks. Whether or not a female politician is qualified/voteable is not about looks (at its core). > > If you have a shallow existence and don’t think too hard about discrimination and inequality then perhaps most discrimination is about looks, for you. But for real people doing things in the real world, who are over 18, it’s not. All you did was list items that have little to do with looks. That doesn’t mean that people don’t discriminate in other areas based on looks. And you changed your qualifier from “very little” to “most”. A moving target is more difficult to hit. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/36 "2014-01-24T21:36:41Z")
> [@citizenzen](#): > > All you did was list items that have little to do with looks. > > That doesn’t mean that people don’t discriminate in other areas based on looks. > > And you changed your qualifier from “very little” to “most”. > > A moving target is more difficult to hit. What I believe **even sven** was trying to say (I didn’t say “very little”, she did) is that if a woman is being discriminated against, it’s because she is a woman not because she is a woman who looks like whatever. If people are talking about gender discrimination they are not talking about how pretty girls get more free drinks than ugly girls. They are talking about all women versus all men. I don’t doubt people discriminate based on looks. That is one way people discriminate. But to be surprised that “very little discrimination is about looks” means that you think most discrimination is, and I am saying that no, it’s not. And giving examples of what most women face as discrimination that is not based on their looks. I use the term “most” as a rebuttal to the disbelief of the term “very little.” I don’t see how using “very little” as the opposite of “very little” would have been the correct term. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/37 "2014-01-24T21:43:10Z")
Society believes that the only value a woman has is in her looks. The discrimination comes into play at this point, satirized earlier in the thread for the male gender: > [@Merneith](#): > > Hey, **kstarnes** - Osiris might be on to something. Post your picture in the nudes thread so we can judge if you’re hot enough that we need to care about your opinions on feminine beauty. And that pretty much sums up the relation between beauty and discrimination in regards to women. You can just leave the “on feminine beauty” part out of the sentence for maximum understanding. After all, it doesn’t matter how good a job she does or how intelligent she is, the first thing out of society’s mouth is, “so, is she hot or not?” and if she’s not, she’s disregarded. Female beauty as a measure of personal worth is one of the kernels at the base of female discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/38 "2014-01-24T21:55:47Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > After all, it doesn’t matter how good a job she does or how intelligent she is, the first thing out of society’s mouth is, “so, is she hot or not?” and if she’s not, she’s disregarded. Female beauty as a measure of personal worth is one of the kernels at the base of female discrimination. My brother is a big case of this. During last french presidential elections, his main complaint toward the ecology party canditate was that she was ugly: [Eva Joly - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Joly) whereas he was finding the canditate for the right wing party, the one he votes for, fuckable: [Marine Le Pen - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Le_Pen) ---
**Author:** ![citizenzen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@citizenzen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/citizenzen)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/39 "2014-01-24T22:10:22Z")
> [@BleizDu](#): > > My brother is a big case of this. During last french presidential elections, his main complaint toward the ecology party canditate was that she was ugly: [Eva Joly - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Joly) whereas he was finding the canditate for the right wing party, the one he votes for, fuckable: [Marine Le Pen - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Le_Pen) It’s one of the insults commonly thrown out towards Hillary Clinton. OMG. She has “cankles”! How could she possibly lead America? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596/40 "2014-01-24T23:10:41Z")
I think some men here are vastly overestimating the importance of how hot they think we are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-observation-about-female-attractiveness-and-gender-obsession/679596.md?page=3)