# Interesting podcast conversation between Sam Harris and Charles Murray (of "Bell Curve" fame) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 23, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052 "2017-04-23T09:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 113
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2241 "2018-12-18T23:01:45Z")
It’s funny to see Elmore being cast as my sock puppet when he’s apparently an expert on this Sargon guy, whom I had never heard of until a few days ago and still know very little about. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Racist thinks random unrelated article that has nothing to do with race/intelligence (or even anything in that ballpark) thinks it supports his bullshit evidence-free racist pseudoscientific beliefs. :dubious: Okay, apparently I have to connect the dots for you. First, because you so reflexively scream “PSEUDOSCIENCE” at every mention of race and IQ, you may have lost track of the fact (or never realized it?!?) that there is zero dispute among psychometricians that African Americans score significantly lower, on average, than whites (and whites lower than Asian Americans) on IQ and other aptitude tests. I really think you may get into a mindset that this itself is not true, that somehow black kids are actually scoring just as high as white kids on these tests. Not so. And these differences hold up even when controlling for poverty. So the only controversy (and it’s a doozy) is WHY the disparity exists. Those in your camp, like the psychologists Vox brought in to “take down” Sam Harris, believe there are environmental factors at play, presumably involving racist treatment by teachers (this slander against hardworking teachers, many of whom are black themselves, is why I’m exercised by this perspective). But this Vox piece states that such an environmental explanation won’t fly: > [@](#): > > Take the same person, expose them to different environments and different experiences, and, more likely than not, they’ll come out with roughly the same desires and traits.[…] > You may think you decided to become a biologist because of that one amazing biology teacher you had in seventh grade. But it’s more likely that you just had a knack for biology and that you’d have found a reason to become a biologist one way or another. Do I have to spell it out any further for you? And let’s please keep in mind that Vox is not some loosey-goosey platform for various writers like HuffPo. It is (or gives the impression of being) under tight editorial control. Its whole M.O. is to be an authoritative “explainer” type resource (although it doesn’t take long to see a strong progressive tilt underneath that “just the facts” tone). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2242 "2018-12-18T23:47:19Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > It’s funny to see Elmore being cast as my sock puppet when he’s apparently an expert on this Sargon guy, whom I had never heard of until a few days ago and still know very little about. > > :dubious: > > Okay, apparently I have to connect the dots for you. > > First, because you so reflexively scream “PSEUDOSCIENCE” at every mention of race and IQ, you may have lost track of the fact (or never realized it?!?) that there is zero dispute among psychometricians that African Americans score significantly lower, on average, than whites (and whites lower than Asian Americans) on IQ and other aptitude tests. I really think you may get into a mindset that this itself is not true, that somehow black kids are actually scoring just as high as white kids on these tests. Not so. And these differences hold up even when controlling for poverty. > > So the only controversy (and it’s a doozy) is WHY the disparity exists. Those in your camp, like the psychologists Vox brought in to “take down” Sam Harris, believe there are environmental factors at play, presumably involving racist treatment by teachers (this slander against hardworking teachers, many of whom are black themselves, is why I’m exercised by this perspective). > > But this Vox piece states that such an environmental explanation won’t fly: > > Do I have to spell it out any further for you? > > And let’s please keep in mind that Vox is not some loosey-goosey platform for various writers like HuffPo. It is (or gives the impression of being) under tight editorial control. Its whole M.O. is to be an authoritative “explainer” type resource (although it doesn’t take long to see a strong progressive tilt underneath that “just the facts” tone). “Desires and personality traits” do not equal intelligence. If they were talking about intelligence, they would have used that word. But they weren’t talking about intelligence at all; hence they didn’t mention intelligence, or any synonym for intelligence, in the entire article. So you’re connecting nonexistent dots just because you want rhetorical support for your racist beliefs. That article says absolutely nothing about intelligence, much less race and genetics for intelligence. I’m very familiar with the facts of the argument (including the facts on various test score statistics), and very familiar with the pseudoscientific bullshit peddled by racists like you and those you admire to argue that black people are inherently genetically inferior in intellect (using different words). It’s all racist pseudoscientific bullshit. Sure, there’s a reasonable discussion about why various disparities in test score statistics exist. You are not taking part in that reasonable discussion – you’re spreading racist pseudoscientific bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2243 "2018-12-19T00:05:21Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But this Vox piece states that such an environmental explanation won’t fly: > > Do I have to spell it out any further for you? Meh bullshit indeed as **iiandyiiii** noted, just more reason to think that your genes fail in the matter of memory, more than once in this thread it was noticed that inheritance of intelligence is not the exclusive realm of **some** races. The article (that is not a study, how **sad** is that to bring a discussion like this one? 🙂 ) makes no separated conclusions regarding races. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > And let’s please keep in mind that Vox is not some loosey-goosey platform for various writers like HuffPo. It is (or gives the impression of being) under tight editorial control. Its whole M.O. is to be an authoritative “explainer” type resource (although it doesn’t take long to see a strong progressive tilt underneath that “just the facts” tone). And indeed, this just about example #242 of you trying to make hay about differences among races with no evidence from an article. _Philosophers_\* in this case **do not even mention race in their article**. In that philosophical article **there is no genetic reason nor evidence** to assume **a difference among races** regarding how inheritance affects intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2244 "2018-12-19T00:43:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But they weren’t talking about intelligence at all; hence they didn’t mention intelligence, or any synonym for intelligence, in the entire article. > [@](#): > > You may think you decided to become a biologist because of that one amazing biology teacher you had in seventh grade. But it’s more likely that you just had a knack for biology and that you’d have found a reason to become a biologist one way or another. Just what exactly do you think “a knack for biology” means? Are you really this dense, or just shamelessly disingenuous? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2245 "2018-12-19T00:49:05Z")
> **[Opinion | How Genetics Is Changing Our Understanding of ‘Race’ (Published 2018)](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html)** > > If scientists avoid discussing the topic candidly, racist theories will fill the vacuum. Here’s some ‘fake news’ from a fake news source from an obviously racist pseudoscientist from that fake university Harvard. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2246 "2018-12-19T00:49:57Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > _Philosophers_\* in this case **do not even mention race in their article**. Of course not. Vox never would have printed it if they had! I’m sure it wasn’t even on their minds. But the implication is clear: academic aptitude comes from innate ability, not from environmental factors. Since no one disputes that black students as a group have lower academic aptitude, this would necessarily mean it is an innate deficiency rather than something that arises from environmental factors. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2247 "2018-12-19T00:54:50Z")
About the foolishness of using a philosophy article that noes not mention genetic differences among races: here is a short video to point to others (not the slacker as he is beyond hope) about why it is important to ask the experts that are more related to the issue about an issue. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/qZzwRwFDXw0/hqdefault.jpg "9. Climate Change - Meet the Scientists") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZzwRwFDXw0) Who is a scientist? Meet the scientists. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter if you’re a PhD, a PhD in metallurgy just makes you better at metallurgy it doesn’t transform you into some kind of an expert in paleoclimatology \*. Since this is so obvious, why is it that so many people are convinced that Thunderbirds is real [in the way that many people think] that every scientist is Brains? (As if an expert on an issue makes him or her an expert in all other branches of science) So it is then that we should look at what geneticists and anthropologists see it. > **[Flash! The episode about sam harris versus ezra klein versus actual science](http://speakingofrace.ua.edu/podcast/flash-the-episode-about-sam-harris-versus-ezra-klein-versus-actual-science)** > > A "seismic" op-ed in the New York Times ! Well known podcast host throwing down on another well known podcast host! A discredited race scientist from the 1980s-90s seemingly justified by a Harvard... > [@](#): > > **Erik Peterson:** Reight just talked about what he thinks is a form of Orthodoxy that he fears is causing geneticist and anthropologists, which are the two groups of Scholars most likely to be grappling with these issues, to turn a blind eye to any study that might show a genetic difference between racial groups. > > Which we would agree with but then on the other side of his mouth he says there are hard genetic differences between racial groups and he even gives a few examples the first uses is on work which report to genetically base risk factor for prostate cancer among people who self-identify as African-Americans and then the second is research conducted by other people including a team that includes Economist Daniel Benjamin on people of European ancestry against self-reported. Looking to see if genetic variation appeared between people of different education levels. > > **Jo Weaver:** Despite the fact that Reich is more measured with his arguments and has more training in genetics than most of the other thinkers we have been talking about today; he still Falls prey to the same logical error: a failure to grasp the difference between populations and races. And in fact just a few days ago on March 30th a group of 67 health scientist geneticist and Anthropologists including our friend Joseph Graves. Published an open letter in Buzzfeed that they called “how not to talk about about race and genetics” and it was responding to this debate. > > There they explain why Reich’s finding that there is a genetic risk factor for prostate cancer among African-Americans does not prove the validity of African-American as a biological race category. > > Can you read what they say there? > > **Erik Peterson:** “These people may have a higher frequency of a version of a particular gene that is linked to a higher risk of prostate cancer, but lots of people not from West Africa also have the same gene, we don’t call these other people a race. Nor do we say their race is relevant to their condition. Finding a high prevalence of a particular genetic variance in a group does not make that group a race.” > **[Heritability: It's all relative](https://www.apa.org/monitor/apr04/herit)** > > Heritability is a statistical measure defined in relation to a particular environment and a particular population. > [@](#): > > Turkheimer and his colleagues found that, among poor families, children who grew up in the same household tended to have similar IQ scores, regardless of how genetically similar they were. Around 60 percent of the variance was accounted for by environment, while genes contributed almost nothing. Among affluent families, the reverse was true. Monozygotic twins with identical genes tended to have much more similar IQ scores than dizygotic twins, regardless of family environment. > > The findings suggest that it makes little sense to speak in general about the heritability of a trait such as IQ. For large populations of people who live in diverse environments, such as children in the United States, such broad statements may be meaningless. The environment can make genes extremely important in some subpopulations, but insignificant in others, notes Turkheimer. > > Such findings do not challenge the traditional definition of heritability–the proportion of variance on a particular trait that is accounted for by genetic factors within the population as a whole, says Terrie Moffitt, PhD, of the University of Wisconsin and King’s College London. But they are important reminders that heritability can vary dramatically depending on the population and the environment that is being studied. Or transform a philosopher into an expert in genetics, what is even sadder is that the slacker does not even notice that they are not supporting what the slacker has been telling us in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2248 "2018-12-19T00:56:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html) > > Here’s some ‘fake news’ from a fake news source from an obviously racist pseudoscientist from that fake university Harvard. And thank you for **showing** all that your genes of memory are also faulty. That was already cited by you before and it did not go well before. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2249 "2018-12-19T01:02:58Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Of course not. Vox never would have printed it if they had! I’m sure it wasn’t even on their minds. But the implication is clear: academic aptitude comes from innate ability, not from environmental factors. Since no one disputes that black students as a group have lower academic aptitude, this would necessarily mean it is an innate deficiency rather than something that arises from environmental factors. And here one has to point that anyone that you are calling for help (the readers of the Harris sites) would not help but to notice that there is evidence already mentioned in this thread that shows that it is not necessary. That was just your prejudice showing there in this post indeed. It was also pointed many times before with examples of interventions that worked not only for Hispanics but what can work for black students. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2250 "2018-12-19T01:14:37Z")
Back to garbled incoherence, I see! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2251 "2018-12-19T01:16:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And thank you for **showing** all that your genes of memory are also faulty. That was already cited by you before and it did not go well before. Only because people can’t read and just want to parrot racist racist racist instead of actually making an effort to understand basic science. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2252 "2018-12-19T01:23:29Z")
Just saw this on the Sam Harris subreddit: > **[People with extreme political views ‘cannot tell when they are wrong’, study...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/radical-politics-extreme-left-right-wing-neuroscience-university-college-london-study-a8687186.html)** > > Scientists used simple experiments to reveal radicals on left and right were unwilling to accept they had made incorrect decisions Explains a lot about left wingers like andy (and of course about hardcore right wingers, but I think we all take that as a given). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2253 "2018-12-19T01:25:15Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Of course not. Vox never would have printed it if they had! I’m sure it wasn’t even on their minds. Oh, and a note for that piffle: (this was posted before too, must be your faulty genes making you forget indeed 🙂 ) > **[Flash! The episode about sam harris versus ezra klein versus actual science](http://speakingofrace.ua.edu/podcast/flash-the-episode-about-sam-harris-versus-ezra-klein-versus-actual-science)** > > A "seismic" op-ed in the New York Times ! Well known podcast host throwing down on another well known podcast host! A discredited race scientist from the 1980s-90s seemingly justified by a Harvard... > [@](#): > > **Jo Weaver:** For instance the Andaman Islander and the South Sudanese person, they have entirely different genetic structures that lead to their similarly looking dark skin. > > **Erik Peterson:** Just because the Andaman Islander and the South Sudanese person share those physical features in common doesn’t actually guarantee that there is a similar underlying genetic code beneath those shared features, and even more importantly, even if it was, it wouldn’t tell you anything at all about genes that may contribute to behavior like preference for dancing or playing chess or even taking an IQ test. > > Jo Weaver: (You hear that? Murray?) 🙂 So, no, as the geneticists, anthropologists and historians in that podcast mention too, this is not really forbidden knowledge, it is more likely that scientists concentrate with the differences among **populations** , one has to realize that it is more logical to realize that there is no evidence in that article to assume that races are different about how intelligence can be in part inherited. Race was not in their minds because race was not a factor in that article (again, an article, not a study) that race item **is only happening in your head**. As noted before: we are still here because a spewer of bile like Murray got a smart but gullible guy like Harris to give him an even bigger megaphone than the one Murray already had before. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2254 "2018-12-19T01:34:30Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Only because people can’t read and just want to parrot racist racist racist instead of actually making an effort to understand basic science. Anyone with more intelligence than a mollusc 🙂 can see that in the end Reich does call guys like Murray racists too. (Because Murray is a defender of the racist Wade, as Reich pointed out he is a racist and you stupidly continue to ignore what Reich said about one of the subjects of the thread) The only straw you managed to grasp was just Reich semmingly making a good point about tut-tutting other researchers for hiding research, but he also did get it wrong about research being “forbidden”. As the quotes and the podcast made by geneticists, anthropologists and historians from the university of Alabama showed; many proper experts are not impressed with Reich and his concern trolling. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2255 "2018-12-19T01:41:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Back to garbled incoherence, I see! And back to forgetting that examples were already given that showed how wrong you were. Me being wrong about some grammar bits is something that can be fixed, not so much about your weak memory genes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2256 "2018-12-19T01:52:35Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Just what exactly do you think “a knack for biology” means? Are you really this dense, or just shamelessly disingenuous? :dubious: I think you’re incapable of challenging your own preconceived notions of black inferiority, and will reach out to the most pathetic of rationalizations, including this entirely unrelated and irrelevant article, to justify them. Just another racist who has convinced himself that racism is truth, and anything out there either confirms this truth or confirms a conspiracy to deny it. Sad and pathetic, even more so considering how common and boring it is. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2257 "2018-12-19T01:55:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html) > > Here’s some ‘fake news’ from a fake news source from an obviously racist pseudoscientist from that fake university Harvard. Nothing in this article disputes anything I’ve said on the subject. If you think it does, please show with some specific quotes. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2258 "2018-12-19T02:02:03Z")
Note that andy, caught flatfooted without any possible substantive response, simply retreated to his tired, generic talking points. Yawn. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2259 "2018-12-19T02:04:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Just saw this on the Sam Harris subreddit: > > [People with extreme political views ‘cannot tell when they are wrong’, study finds | The Independent | The Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/radical-politics-extreme-left-right-wing-neuroscience-university-college-london-study-a8687186.html) > > Explains a lot about left wingers like andy (and of course about hardcore right wingers, but I think we all take that as a given). Racism is in reality radicalized ignorance. Clearly there was evidence presented here about how dumb it was to point\*\* at non experts from a non scientific article\*\* and it was dumb also to think that it was great evidence for a racist idea. We know who has “a misplaced certainty when they’re actually wrong about something, and are resistant to changing their beliefs in the face of evidence that proves them wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2260 "2018-12-19T02:09:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think you’re incapable of challenging your own preconceived notions of black inferiority, and will reach out to the most pathetic of rationalizations, including this entirely unrelated and irrelevant article, to justify them. Bingo. That was pathetic, and doubly so when one sees that the slacker has not realized yet how dumb it was to use that article. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052.md?page=112) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052.md?page=114)