# Interesting podcast conversation between Sam Harris and Charles Murray (of "Bell Curve" fame) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 23, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052 "2017-04-23T09:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 115
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2281 "2018-12-19T20:57:35Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But yeah, I wouldn’t work forty hours a week for any amount of money if I can get by without it. Literally, any amount. My leisure time is priceless and my wants are relatively modest (by First World standards). It’s a great time to be alive. > > This must have been at least a couple years ago. We are well over $50K now, in a part of the country where that goes a pretty long way (our 3BR 2BA apartment in a brand new building with stainless steel appliances, two-car garage, balcony, and access to the clubhouse and fitness center, is $1200 a month with water and heat included). See, this shows how selfish, shortsighted and stupid you are. $50k is shit for a family of six. If you aren’t homeschooling your kids, there is absolutely no excuse for you to be only working a few hours a week. You aren’t saving for retirement or your children’s education and if your wife couldn’t work for some reason you’d be bankrupt and having that nice car repossessed within a couple months. I bet if one of your kids broke his arm, the copays would break your bank account. Lots of people are in that situation. It’s not shameful. Bragging about not working and “winning” in that situation is though. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2282 "2018-12-19T21:23:58Z")
And all your relatives having degrees doesn’t prove they were smart. It proves they weren’t dumb and had a good work ethic. Carlos Castaneda got his Anthropology PhD writing a fucking fairy tale about a Mexican shaman. It’s entirely pathetic that you take exactly the wrong lesson from your better educated relations. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2283 "2018-12-19T21:39:12Z")
Actually, my wife belongs to a strong teachers union and our health coverage is very good with low deductibles and copays. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2284 "2018-12-19T21:42:05Z")
You have said in the past that you relied on government assistance to cover your children’s healthcare. Guess that was also a couple years ago before she was a teacher. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2285 "2018-12-19T21:47:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Actually, my wife belongs to a strong teachers union and our health coverage is very good with low deductibles and copays. A _union_? Why you Marxist radical extremist left-wingers, you. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2286 "2018-12-19T21:48:20Z")
Oh wait, it was last year. > [@The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/14524): > > My four kids were on CHIP their whole lives from January 2000 until August of this year, so I just dodged that bullet. Guess it’s time to become a Republican! ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2287 "2018-12-19T22:03:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Lots of people are in that situation. It’s not shameful. Bragging about not working and “winning” in that situation is though. What about bragging about not working, while sending regular cheques to a born-wealthy multi-millionaire internet polemicist? I’m truly amazed how profitable anti-SJW, culture-warring is. People will willingly mail millionaires MORE millions to rattle a “college kids/blue-haired feminists/racial minorities/etc have gone too far” saber. Not to mention the book deals, speaking fees, and “debate” forums. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2288 "2018-12-19T22:11:51Z")
When the kids were on CHIP, it was even better: no premiums, no deductible, no copays. No out-of-pocket costs of any kind. Of course, my wife’s and my insurance, when I had it, was much worse: a HDHP/HSP combo. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2289 "2018-12-19T22:15:10Z")
Yeah, you’re living the dream. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2290 "2018-12-19T22:21:47Z")
You remind me of that old Norm Macdonald joke. “Hey you see these homeless guys with a dog? That dog is on the longest walk in history. The dog probably looks at the guy and thinks ‘I could do this by myself’”. I bet your wife thinks the same, from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2291 "2018-12-19T22:30:23Z")
LOL, you made me laugh…but no. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2292 "2018-12-19T22:38:13Z")
Not gonna read the thread, but it appears that the main point of the past two pages is that Slacker doesn’t think minorities are all that smart because he, “too”, figured out how to be a welfare queen. Is that reasonably accurate? Or should I go back further? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2293 "2018-12-19T22:43:13Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I’m truly amazed how profitable anti-SJW, culture-warring is. People will willingly mail millionaires MORE millions to rattle a “college kids/blue-haired feminists/racial minorities/etc have gone too far” saber. Not to mention the book deals, speaking fees, and “debate” forums. Heck, as **SlackerInc** illustrates, people will even voluntarily give them money just for stuff like closing their Patreon account in order to protest Patreon’s rules against hate speech. What baffles me is how **SlackerInc** reconciles his enthusiasm for Harris’s gesture with his own continued presence here on the Dope. We have rules against hate speech too, after all. Numerous posters have been banned here for expressing racist or misogynistic views that weren’t in any way illegal or unconstitutional. So if **SlackerInc** thinks it’s so admirable and principled and all to refuse to put up with that kind of “ideological discrimination”, what’s he still doing here putting up with it? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2294 "2018-12-19T22:48:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Not gonna read the thread, but it appears that the main point of the past two pages is that Slacker doesn’t think minorities are all that smart because he, “too”, figured out how to be a welfare queen. Is that reasonably accurate? Or should I go back further? Well, not quite. I suggest reading posts 1-50 and 1000-1050 for an overview of the “racial realism” stuff, posts 2000-2100 for an overview of the Islamophobia stuff, and say the last 3-4 pages to get caught up with the current meander. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2295 "2018-12-19T23:04:00Z")
Oh, and one other general remark: While I definitely recognize it’s not my job to decree what other people can and can’t insult each other about in the Pit, and I understand that income security is an especially important issue for parents, I personally don’t think that being a stay-at-home dad and primary caregiver makes very good insult material. If **SlackerInc** is the chief caregiver and homemaker for three minor children (not counting the 18-year-old) and a full-time-employed spouse, then he is most definitely working more than “a few hours a week”, even if his income-earning work only amounts to a few hours a week. If he finds that setup easy and fulfilling to the point of “winning at life”, that suggests he’s doing pretty well at it, however unimpressive we may find him in some other respects. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2296 "2018-12-19T23:06:50Z")
the intervention worthy of the bigt. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2297 "2018-12-19T23:39:03Z")
Does your 18 year old have any free time, Slacker? Why not ask if he’d like to sign up here and join the conversation? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2298 "2018-12-19T23:40:30Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Oh, and one other general remark: While I definitely recognize it’s not my job to decree what other people can and can’t insult each other about in the Pit, and I understand that income security is an especially important issue for parents, I personally don’t think that being a stay-at-home dad and primary caregiver makes very good insult material. > > If **SlackerInc** is the chief caregiver and homemaker for three minor children (not counting the 18-year-old) and a full-time-employed spouse, then he is most definitely working more than “a few hours a week”, even if his income-earning work only amounts to a few hours a week. If he finds that setup easy and fulfilling to the point of “winning at life”, that suggests he’s doing pretty well at it, however unimpressive we may find him in some other respects. Thanks for the compliment, however backhanded, but just FTR: Our 15yo daughter lives with her mother in Missouri (I send child support, have never missed or even been late with a payment since we separated), although she is flying up to the Twin Cities to celebrate Xmas from the 26th to the 1st with us and various extended family members in a Victorian home we rented from AirBnB in a small town about 40 miles from the city. The younger two do live here in Minnesota with us. Both have autism; our youngest, a six year old boy, also has ADHD and is quite a handful. But he’s also very snuggly and sweet a lot of the time too. I’m definitely a very good dad, even if I do say so myself. The “homemaker” part? Welll…I don’t do as much cleaning, per se, as I probably ideally ought to. :o > [@Covfefe](#): > > Does your 18 year old have any free time, Slacker? Why not ask if he’d like to sign up here and join the conversation? I have linked him to posts here and encouraged him to join in. But he’s a big Redditor and scoffs at this site as being puny by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2299 "2018-12-19T23:53:21Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > the intervention worthy of the bigt. Hey now! It may be the Pit but there are some standards. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2300 "2018-12-19T23:55:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I didn’t think you were part of the “blacks are inherently genetically inferior, on average” crowd. Have you changed your tune? All I’m saying to the left wing version of the right wing climate science deniers is that humans are biological organisms too and it would be exceedingly unlikely that any measurable trait would have the same precise distribution across different population sets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052.md?page=114) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052.md?page=116)