# Interesting podcast conversation between Sam Harris and Charles Murray (of "Bell Curve" fame) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 23, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052 "2017-04-23T09:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 116
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2301 "2018-12-19T23:56:57Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > All I’m saying to the left wing version of the right wing climate science deniers is that humans are biological organisms too and it would be exceedingly unlikely that any measurable trait would have the same precise distribution across different population sets. This doesn’t dispute anything I’ve ever said. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2302 "2018-12-20T00:02:02Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If **SlackerInc** is the chief caregiver and homemaker for three minor children (not counting the 18-year-old) and a full-time-employed spouse, then he is most definitely working more than “a few hours a week”, even if his income-earning work only amounts to a few hours a week. If he finds that setup easy and fulfilling to the point of “winning at life”, that suggests he’s doing pretty well at it, however unimpressive we may find him in some other respects. This is kinda bullshit. You don’t get fired if you are a shitty home keeper and don’t do jack around the house besides toss your kid a bowl of cereal if hes crying about being hungry. And now we have the icing on the cake, one of the kids lives with their mom whom he pays child support. Do you imagine his few hours of Uber driving a week covers that or do you think perhaps his current wife has been subsidizing that all along? Lazy, freeloading, racist faux intellectual. But I’m sure he’s a great dad. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2303 "2018-12-20T00:09:59Z")
“Toss my kid a bowl of cereal”. :rolleyes: I actually don’t let my kids eat cereal because of the acrylamide. I’m a good cook (even if my wife has to clean up after me) and I feed them healthy meals and snacks. 😛 And yes, my Ubering and ACT tutoring (fifty bucks for a forty-five minute session, virtually no overhead) does cover my child support and well more. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2304 "2018-12-20T00:13:46Z")
Uh huh. How about before your wife bought an Uber ready car for you? You know, way back 2 years ago when you were scraping by on $30k? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2305 "2018-12-20T00:19:39Z")
I’m talking about now. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2306 "2018-12-20T00:23:55Z")
I’m talking about your preferred lifestyle: lazy moocher. I find it the height of hilarity that such a lazy mooch poser tries to be a paternalistic racist. Maybe fix your own fucked up attitude before deigning to paternally prescribe what other races need to fix themselves. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2307 "2018-12-20T00:33:59Z")
What was my prescription for other races to “fix themselves”? Genetic engineering, you mean? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2308 "2018-12-20T00:37:20Z")
What do you think your self chosen descriptor of “paternalistic racist” means? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2309 "2018-12-20T00:40:28Z")
That’s not about telling them how to fix themselves, but about supporting funding for their education, nutrition, health care, etc.; and making sure their rights are protected from those who would exploit or abuse them. (Looks so EEEEVIL when I lay it out like that, huh? :rolleyes:) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2310 "2018-12-20T00:47:57Z")
And yet, so many people who support funding for poor black education don’t call themselves paternalistic racists. I can see your mind churning now. It’s because you’re the only honest one, right? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2311 "2018-12-20T00:50:44Z")
And then a lot of those people attack the teachers and administrators of inner city (so-called “failing”) schools, even though they are doing a perfectly good job by and large. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2312 "2018-12-20T01:02:08Z")
I bet that shit works really well on posters who are easily tricked down rabbit holes. But I’m not talking about people who criticize inner city school administration. I’m talking about someone who thinks he’s really clever and describes himself as a lazy paternalistic racist. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2313 "2018-12-20T02:18:53Z")
Does anybody really believe this guy would describe himself as a paternalistic racist if he were in the company of a long time acquaintance, someone whose views he didn’t know and where his reputation might be at stake? It’s safe to get the Pavlovian responses here. I for one am skeptical his self-description is honest. Hell, calling yourself a paternalistic racist on r/samharris (where there are a diverse array of viewpoints) would be considerably more believable despite the reality, I’m guessing, that no one there knows who you are. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2314 "2018-12-20T02:37:06Z")
“Paternal racist” is simply a term so you can admit you’re racist, required for many of his debate positions, while simultaneously saying “but I’m not a jerk about it!”. Oh, and I thought of where Slacker “prescribed” how blacks would be better off. In his [Why doesn’t some rich Dem move blacks where we need them to vote](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=866250) thread he said more than once that it’s for their own good as well and when someone suggested some equally silly population move, mentions how black Mississippians couldn’t handle living in North Dakota. I remembered it because he tried the same deflection trick there. > [@Why don’t Tom Steyer or George Soros move black Mississippians to Pensacola or Atlanta?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-don-t-tom-steyer-or-george-soros-move-black-mississippians-to-pensacola-or-atlanta/825187/61): > > And you think moving 2% of the black population of Mississippi is remotely doable. It’s a dumb fucking idea. It’s not reaistic logistically or politically. You seem to be under the delusion that everyone disagrees for some politically correct reasons. > [@Why don’t Tom Steyer or George Soros move black Mississippians to Pensacola or Atlanta?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-don-t-tom-steyer-or-george-soros-move-black-mississippians-to-pensacola-or-atlanta/825187/69): > > \ > Black Mississippians are not going to be able to handle living in ND. I live right next to the ND border, so trust me on this. > \ > Izzat right? :dubious: Then I’m sure you can cite the post where I expressed this idea you say I “seem” (weasel word) to have. In reality, that in no way resembles anything I think: I am, to be sure, no fan of political correctness—but I don’t even know what the PC angle would be in this case. > [@Why don’t Tom Steyer or George Soros move black Mississippians to Pensacola or Atlanta?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-don-t-tom-steyer-or-george-soros-move-black-mississippians-to-pensacola-or-atlanta/825187/70): > > Hey, they’re called weasel words for a reason. You certainly haven’t addressed some of the reality based questions your proposal would require answering. Like how many people you hope to move, how you avoid the legal hurdles of race based hiring, etc. You utterly avoided my request for some examples of this strategy being planned let alone executed. > [@Why don’t Tom Steyer or George Soros move black Mississippians to Pensacola or Atlanta?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-don-t-tom-steyer-or-george-soros-move-black-mississippians-to-pensacola-or-atlanta/825187/71): > > You’re changing the subject. What did I say that indicated I was laying disagreement at the feet of “political correctness”? > [@Why don’t Tom Steyer or George Soros move black Mississippians to Pensacola or Atlanta?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-don-t-tom-steyer-or-george-soros-move-black-mississippians-to-pensacola-or-atlanta/825187/72): > > I apologize for incorrect impression. > > You may now lay out some specifics for your plan. If that proves difficult, you may have answered your own OP as to why Soros doesn’t do this. And then silence. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2315 "2018-12-20T02:37:15Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > Does anybody really believe this guy would describe himself as a paternalistic racist if he were in the company of a long time acquaintance, someone whose views he didn’t know and where his reputation might be at stake? It’s safe to get the Pavlovian responses here. I for one am skeptical his self-description is honest. 😕 Of course you’re right that I would be much more reticent to cop to that viewpoint in a situation where people know my identity (and perhaps more importantly, my wife’s—she does not, BTW, share my views on this, as is probably fairly obvious). But how does it then follow that what I say here is LESS honest? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2316 "2018-12-20T17:42:13Z")
A sadly naive choice of backpacking location by these Scandinavian women: [Morocco murders: Tourist killings suspects 'backed IS' - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46632182) I would not take the risk of vacationing in a predominantly Muslim country, not even a relatively less violent one like Morocco. But if you do, at least stay in places where you have the protection of security forces nearby. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2317 "2018-12-20T18:17:17Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > A sadly naive choice of backpacking location by these Scandinavian women: [Morocco murders: Tourist killings suspects 'backed IS'](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46632182) > > I would not take the risk of vacationing in a predominantly Muslim country, not even a relatively less violent one like Morocco. But if you do, at least stay in places where you have the protection of security forces nearby. Is it “anecdotes in Morocco” time? It is? Okay! My wife’s sister, a Christian, has lived in Morocco for about 10 years. Last Christmas, we visited her, along with my wife’s other sister (who lives in Belgium) and our (Belgian) nephew. We had an absolutely amazing time (Casablanca and Marrakech, with most of our time in the latter). The people were very friendly, the food was amazing, and everything (including accomodations) was about a third of the price it would be in Europe or the US. We had the best roast lamb I’ve ever eaten, enough for 5 plus a second meal’s worth of leftovers, for the equivalent of $50. Fresh squeezed orange juice was sold from carts on almost every block for about a quarter. The worst thing was that most Moroccans addressed me, the only one of the group who isn’t fluent in French. But it was a wonderful trip, and I couldn’t recommend visiting Morocco enough. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2318 "2018-12-20T18:53:13Z")
We visited Tangier on a day trip when we were in Spain a few years ago. It was interesting and cool like something out of a medieval movie, with all these public stairs and walkways walled by and under buildings. But from what I’ve heard from friends and relatives, it felt a lot more austere than the tourist hotspots like Marrakesh. Was quite glad to know I was going to spend the evening back in Spain. Anyways, I hope the parents of those two murdered women can take some solace in the fact that their deaths was a useful flashbang for SlackerInc to throw into this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2319 "2018-12-20T19:09:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > A sadly naive choice of backpacking location by these Scandinavian women: [Morocco murders: Tourist killings suspects 'backed IS'](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46632182) > > I would not take the risk of vacationing in a predominantly Muslim country, not even a relatively less violent one like Morocco. But if you do, at least stay in places where you have the protection of security forces nearby. “Something that happens everywhere in the world happened in a place with predominantly population X, therefore that place is dangerous because it’s largely made up of X” Replace Morocco with Detroit and Muslims with African-Americans, and you’ve recreated a lovely little argument fit for publication on The Daily Stormer. What the fuck is wrong with you? Like, what even the fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/2320 "2018-12-20T19:30:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I would not take the risk of vacationing in a predominantly Muslim country, not even a relatively less violent one like Morocco. That’s because you’re a coward and a bigot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052.md?page=115) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052.md?page=117)