# Interesting podcast conversation between Sam Harris and Charles Murray (of "Bell Curve" fame) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 23, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052 "2017-04-23T09:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1621 "2018-08-02T01:13:28Z")
Kids today and their podcasts: please immediately proceed off EE’s lawn. Thank you. (Some of us are too busy with childcare or housework to consume books or articles the way we can podcasts.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1622 "2018-08-02T01:39:47Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > (Some of us are too busy with childcare or housework to consume books or articles the way we can podcasts.) Yeah, but if we have time to frequently read and write multiple posts on the SDMB, we have time to read an occasional article here and there. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1623 "2018-08-02T02:14:38Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > That was way more work than that particular poster deserves, but thank you for doing it. Strange how the actual underlying data directly contradicts his claim, and that it was available on the internet if he had what it takes to go look it up. > > Also strange how this particular poster claims to be intelligent, but has none of the hallmarks of actual intelligence (I’m specifically speaking of intellectual curiosity here, but this also applies to other hallmarks of intelligence, such as reading comprehension, logic, life success, etc.) Let’s stick to the issues of the discussion and omit commentary regarding one’s perception of the traits of other posters. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1624 "2018-08-02T02:23:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Let’s stick to the issues of the discussion and omit commentary regarding one’s perception of the traits of other posters. > > [/Moderating] Apologies if I’ve missed a specific instruction on rules for this thread, but I though in the Pit we were allowed to discuss such traits? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1625 "2018-08-02T03:39:14Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Apologies if I’ve missed a specific instruction on rules for this thread, but I though in the Pit we were allowed to discuss such traits? I was wondering about that, I suspect there is a combination of snowflake racialist guys with quick “report to mod” button reaction times and distractions or overwork at the admin level. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1626 "2018-08-02T03:52:38Z")
I haven’t reported anything. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1627 "2018-08-02T04:18:10Z")
I like to think that it’s merely that our calm rationality and incisive critiques have beguiled a mod into forgetting which forum this is. On account of when it comes to discussing “one’s perception of the traits of other posters”, the reprimanded post was by Pit standards positively gracious. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1628 "2018-08-02T04:30:44Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I like to think that it’s merely that our calm rationality and incisive critiques have beguiled a mod into forgetting which forum this is. Dear chap, I suspect you’re quite correct. I knobbing well should should have fucking realized what caused the bastard confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1629 "2018-08-02T05:15:37Z")
I was just about to hypothesize that SlackerInc’s views were influenced by a misalignment of his humour. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1630 "2018-08-02T08:51:30Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I like to think that it’s merely that our calm rationality and incisive critiques have beguiled a mod into forgetting which forum this is. I have lamented from the beginning that it didn’t feel safe to put this thread anywhere but the Pit. But since there’s no “intellectual dark web” board here (which might require a modicum of civility but allow for frank discussion of taboo topics), I still don’t see another option. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1631 "2018-08-02T10:11:03Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I have lamented from the beginning that it didn’t feel safe to put this thread anywhere but the Pit. But since there’s no “ **intellectual dark web** ” board here (which might require a modicum of civility but allow for frank discussion of taboo topics), I still don’t see another option. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1632 "2018-08-02T10:25:32Z")
It’s not my coinage: > **[Opinion | Meet the Renegades of the Intellectual Dark Web (Published 2018)](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/opinion/intellectual-dark-web.html)** > > An alliance of heretics is making an end run around the mainstream conversation. Should we be listening? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1633 "2018-08-02T11:16:25Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > It’s not my coinage: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/opinion/intellectual-dark-web.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/opinion/intellectual-dark-web.html) Yes, that’s well known. I think **BPC** was probably just rolling his eyes at the pretentiousness of the term, not at you for inventing it. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1634 "2018-08-02T12:55:43Z")
Maybe so. Just wanted to make that clear, because I don’t love the term either and would prefer something else (what, exactly, I cannot say). But that’s the label people are using, for now at least. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1635 "2018-08-02T13:18:00Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You could actually listen to the podcast episode \ I think this is one of the most aggravating aspects of this thread - that you expect busy people to take time out of their day to just listen to an entire fucking podcast when you could have just as easily articulated specific arguments or opinions you’d like to share and debated the merits of those arguments right out of the gate. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1636 "2018-08-02T13:33:08Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think this is one of the most aggravating aspects of this thread - that you expect busy people to take time out of their day to just listen to an entire fucking podcast when you could have just as easily articulated specific arguments or opinions you’d like to share and debated the merits of those arguments right out of the gate. Especially when that ish is **nearly two hours long**. **SlackerInc** , if you want to restrict your discussions of Sam Harris podcasts to posters who’ve already listened to them, like the “seen it” threads in Cafe Society, that’s up to you. But a lot of the rest of us have absolutely no interest in devoting that kind of time or clicks to Harris’s bloviating, and will not participate if that’s a requirement for participation. So if you want to have a discussion about ideas or publications or controversies that Harris talks about, you’re going to have to provide alternative **written** sources for them (as you did with your link to the Hughes article) and not keep exhorting people to listen to the podcast itself, because ain’t gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1637 "2018-08-02T13:33:33Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Maybe so. Just wanted to make that clear, because I don’t love the term either and would prefer something else (what, exactly, I cannot say). But that’s the label people are using, for now at least. How about “Mainstream Underground Marketplace of Ideas Railroad”. Could be shortened to MUMOIR. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1638 "2018-08-02T13:52:45Z")
“Contrarians Regurgitating Anti-Progressivism”? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1639 "2018-08-02T16:13:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Let’s stick to the issues of the discussion and omit commentary regarding one’s perception of the traits of other posters. > > [/Moderating] This is seriously going to crimp my style. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1640 "2018-08-02T16:24:50Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Let’s stick to the issues of the discussion and omit commentary regarding one’s perception of the traits of other posters. > > [/Moderating] I realize this was a misplaced moderation note, but doesn’t it reveal the profound idiocy at the heart of Great Debates? How is the OP of this thread not talking about his “perception of the traits of [black] posters”? He’s saying black people, including black posters, are intellectually inferior to white people and white posters. You thought this thread was in GD and your admonition was not to the guy spouting racist bullshit but to someone talking about specific things a specific poster does. Goddamn it, every time I post on this board I feel complicit with its disgusting pandering to racists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052.md?page=83)