# Interesting podcast conversation between Sam Harris and Charles Murray (of "Bell Curve" fame) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 23, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052 "2017-04-23T09:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 85
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1681 "2018-08-11T02:38:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you’re accepting that you have baseless white supremacist views, maybe you can try and change. You don’t have to have these views. The evidence certainly doesn’t support them. And the worst thing is that SI’s “carefully researched posts” still led others like me to realize that they actually did not show exactly what he wanted to show, then it was noticed that the issue of inadequate school funding is really a different discussion. But it was better to hijack his own thread as it was clear that a couple of his previously “carefully researched posts” actually showed that Murray and others really spewed shit about how Hispanic students could not improve if they got better aid or resources. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1682 "2018-08-11T05:33:29Z")
Oh, GIGO…no. > [@rat\_avatar](#): > > If you like podcasts the following book is sold as an audiobook. > > WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH: My Descent into America’s Most Violent Hate Movement – and How I Got Out – Christian PicciolinI He was on Sam’s podcast a couple months back! But then later Sam had to sort of apologize because Picciolini had basically slandered someone and Sam didn’t catch it at the time because he didn’t know enough about the person. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1683 "2018-08-11T07:05:16Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Oh, GIGO…no. > > He was on Sam’s podcast a couple months back! But then later Sam had to sort of apologize because Picciolini had basically slandered someone and Sam didn’t catch it at the time because he didn’t know enough about the person. That James Damore is a right wing extremist? That is true, he is the asshole who sent out that sexist email. > **[Exclusive: Here's The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating...](https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320)** > > Update 8/5/17 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance Danielle Brown has issued her own memo to Google employees in response to the now-viral memo, “Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber.” Brown’s statement,... I am not claiming that he fully swallowed the \*red pill \*and he backed off after Charlottesville but he was being vetted by these groups and his vetting was discussed on one of their sites. I am not sure how far down the rabbit hole he went though but he was associating with them. If there are leaks after this weekend I’ll post the discussions but I refuse to link to the actual site. Plus if you have a ‘cuck’ inside that feeds you information it actually puts peoples lives at risk to disclose this info if there isn’t a public leak. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1684 "2018-08-11T07:12:42Z")
I only take the hearts and minds path and refuse to dox anybody BTW, Christian may have had more info then I have access to but probably feels the same way. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1685 "2018-08-11T09:19:25Z")
[quote=“iiandyiiii, post:1677, topic:785052”] You should’ve found fault with Harris’s ridiculous and false assertions about race (that it’s a primarily biological classification, when it’s very clearly primarily societal, with only a very slight correlation with biology), as well as his utter failure to challenge Murray on any of his ridiculous assertions. /QUOTE] We’ve fought this out already, and discovered there’s no answer. Sam doesn’t know the answer, I don’t know the answer, Murray doesn’t know the answer, Slacker doesn’t know the answer, and you don’t know the answer. None of us has ever claimed to know the answer. So stop saying “ridiculous”. You sound like **Kimstu**. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1686 "2018-08-11T10:50:35Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > You should’ve found fault with Harris’s ridiculous and false assertions about race (that it’s a primarily biological classification, when it’s very clearly primarily societal, with only a very slight correlation with biology), as well as his utter failure to challenge Murray on any of his ridiculous assertions. > > We’ve fought this out already, and discovered there’s no answer. Sam doesn’t know the answer, I don’t know the answer, Murray doesn’t know the answer, Slacker doesn’t know the answer, and you don’t know the answer. None of us has ever claimed to know the answer. > > So stop saying “ridiculous”. You sound like **Kimstu**. Sam and Murray claim they know, or are close to knowing for certain, and the evidence does not come close to justifying this. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1687 "2018-08-11T14:43:54Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > That James Damore is a right wing extremist? That is true, he is the asshole who sent out that sexist email. > > [Exclusive: Here's The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google [Updated]](https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320) > > I am not claiming that he fully swallowed the \*red pill \*and he backed off after Charlottesville but he was being vetted by these groups and his vetting was discussed on one of their sites. I am not sure how far down the rabbit hole he went though but he was associating with them. > > If there are leaks after this weekend I’ll post the discussions but I refuse to link to the actual site. Plus if you have a ‘cuck’ inside that feeds you information it actually puts peoples lives at risk to disclose this info if there isn’t a public leak. I don’t remember if that was it. What makes you think it was—are you a Waking Up listener? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1688 "2018-08-11T14:44:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sam and Murray claim they know, or are close to knowing for certain, and the evidence does not come close to justifying this. And I will have to add that it looks like **nachtmusick** , like **SlackerInc** , missed post #1670. That is what most of academia (teachers, professors) approach guys like Murray and even Harris or Reich: with very little respect. The University of Alabama podcast (for the ones that bothered to listen to) shows also that the makers of it, teachers and professors of Anthropology and Historians of science, point also at how well they regard [the reply that Ezra Klein made to Harris and Murray in VOX](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/27/15695060/sam-harris-charles-murray-race-iq-forbidden-knowledge-podcast-bell-curve), with the caveat that they pointed out that Klein missed even more chances to ‘cut down to size’ Murray, Harris and the rest of the “scientific” racists. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1689 "2018-08-11T16:54:40Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I don’t remember if that was it. What makes you think it was—are you a Waking Up listener? Nope, I’m a ‘James Damore’ critic and it made a bunch of his fans wargarble. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1690 "2018-08-11T17:15:56Z")
Wait, GIGO: you’re citing a podcast? Don’t you know that’s a completely illegitimate source? ;-). You might as well be referencing a NickJr cartoon. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1691 "2018-08-11T18:15:27Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Wait, GIGO: you’re citing a podcast? Don’t you know that’s a completely illegitimate source? ;-). You might as well be referencing a NickJr cartoon. 😉 Yes, **citing it** is the key, as in making a proper quote. And if you were as smart as you claim you could already had figure it out how to make a cite of a podcast with Google and a desktop computer. Also, it is noticeable that you have not bothered to reply to what the professors told you about Murray, Harris and Reich. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1692 "2018-08-12T01:24:52Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Yes, **citing it** is the key, as in making a proper quote. And if you were as smart as you claim you could already had figure it out how to make a cite of a podcast with Google and a desktop computer. All sniping aside: if you tell me how to do that, I will be genuinely appreciative and will gain a new respect for your resourcefulness. Sincerely. And it will make my posts more palatable to you and others who have complained. Win-win all around, amirite? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1693 "2018-08-12T03:28:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > All sniping aside: if you tell me how to do that, I will be genuinely appreciative and will gain a new respect for your resourcefulness. Sincerely. And it will make my posts more palatable to you and others who have complained. Win-win all around, amirite? 😃 The basics are explained here: > **[Finally, an easy, quick way to transcribe audio, for free](https://qz.com/work/1087765/how-to-transcribe-audio-fast-and-for-free-using-google-docs-voice-typing)** > > This transcribing strategy is astonishingly effective, costs literally nothing, works in every language, and will save you hours of grunt work. Using Google Drive is the key, the difference is that: it is not one’s mouth where one points the microphone at, but one points the microphone to the central speaker used by one’s computer. If one wants to create a quote seen as important, one stops the podcast, sets the Google document, set a microphone next to the speaker, activate the Voice Typing Tool and see the text pop in to the document. Of course it is not perfect, some editing had to be done as some “Yay’s!” or fake grunts to clear throats, or “You heard that, Murray?” lines pop up. There is clearly a time limit, but one just stops the podcast when the text stops, stop the text recorder and then press record again after restarting the podcast to continue to capture a bit more until the lines that you need are in the page. Then one hears the bit of that podcast again to compare and correct some words that were wrong and one gets a rebuttal to nonsense from the OP like this one: > [@](#): > > \*\*Jo Weaver: \*\* For instance the Andaman Islander and the South Sudanese person, they have entirely different genetic structures that lead to their similarly looking dark skin. > > **Erik Peterson:** Just because the Andaman Islander and the South Sudanese person share those physical features in common doesn’t actually guarantee that there is a similar underlying genetic code beneath those shared features, and even more importantly, even if it was, it wouldn’t tell you anything at all about genes that may contribute to behavior like preference for dancing or playing chess _or even taking an IQ test._ > \*\* > Jo Weaver:\*\* (You hear that? Murray?) 🙂 So, no, it wasn’t forbidden knowledge, it was just that a spewer of bile like Murray got a smart but gullible guy like Harris to give him an even bigger megaphone than the one Murray already had before. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1694 "2018-08-15T09:09:54Z")
Twitter and hyperbole go hand in hand and still, Christian Picciolini is out of his mind here (except w/regard to Molyneux). [https://twitter.com/cpicciolini/status/1029489701202350080](https://twitter.com/cpicciolini/status/1029489701202350080) > [@](#): > > The most dangerous white nationalists brainwashing us are not always people like Richard Spencer or David Duke. Those who mask their intentions behind “pseudo-philosophy, race realism, misogyny, and skepticism,” like @StefanMolyneux, @SamHarrisOrg, and @JordanBPeterson are worse. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1695 "2018-08-15T14:30:30Z")
WTH, backstab much? Sam gave him a whole episode (probably two hours) with a large platform and didn’t even contest anything he said that I can recall. In fact, my cousin I told you about, that I pulled off the alt-right ledge by getting him into Sam’s podcast, quit listening in disgust after hearing half of it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1696 "2018-08-15T14:45:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > WTH, backstab much? Sam gave him a whole episode (probably two hours) with a large platform and didn’t even contest anything he said that I can recall. In fact, my cousin I told you about, that I pulled off the alt-right ledge by getting him into Sam’s podcast, quit listening in disgust after hearing half of it. It’s remarkable to me (well, perhaps not so much after reading your posts for a few years) that your reaction here is about some supposed betrayal, or loyalty that Sam ought to be due, rather than whether those beliefs of Picicolini’s might be sincere and rational. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1697 "2018-08-15T14:55:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The basics are explained here: > > [How to transcribe audio fast and for free using google docs voice typing](https://qz.com/work/1087765/how-to-transcribe-audio-fast-and-for-free-using-google-docs-voice-typing/) > > Using Google Drive is the key, the difference is that: it is not one’s mouth where one points the microphone at, but one points the microphone to the central speaker used by one’s computer. There’s actually a better way to do that part, if available. If your sound card has the stereo mix option, you can select that as your input, and it will just be straight from the audio in your computer. If that’s not available, there’s a hardware solution where you get a male-to-male cable and plug it into the line out and line in (often the same port as the mic) on a computer, and then use that. This is often used for recording audio off a computer. It’s how I used to record my DRM audio books (so I could listen to them on my MP3 player) when I couldn’t find any way to crack the DRM. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1698 "2018-08-15T14:57:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s remarkable to me (well, perhaps not so much after reading your posts for a few years) that your reaction here is about some supposed betrayal, or loyalty that Sam ought to be due, rather than whether those beliefs of Picicolini’s might be sincere and rational. It’s weird to me that anyone attesting to be assessing a topic rationally gives any credence to some idea of loyalty. Facts have no loyalty. They are just are. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1699 "2018-08-15T18:06:24Z")
It’s not about loyalty. Why couldn’t he say it to Sam’s face? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1700 "2018-08-15T18:12:43Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > It’s not about loyalty. Why couldn’t he say it to Sam’s face? He may not have been sure of it at the time; he may not have been comfortable challenging him in person; or a million other reasons. I don’t see why that matters, unless you’re trying to do something silly like challenge his honor or manliness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052.md?page=84) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052.md?page=86)