# Interesting podcast conversation between Sam Harris and Charles Murray (of "Bell Curve" fame)

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [April 23, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052 "2017-04-23T09:21:23Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 1549

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**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [May 15, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1549 "2018-05-15T14:40:47Z")

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> [@Sneering progressives are driving young white men into the arms of the GOP](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/947):
>
> See post 250: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20945277&postcount=250](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20945277&postcount=250)
> 
> The problem with bringing things in from other threads (other boards, even) is that people who weren’t in those threads only get your selected spin on what was said. You somehow neglected to mention that I have consistently supported reparations for slavery and dramatically increasing funding for educating black kids, funding social programs that benefit African Americans, etc. Or that Obama is my favorite president, closely followed by LBJ and Grant, specifically because of their strong records of supporting civil rights for blacks.
> 
> So now someone who wasn’t in that thread might be confused and wondering how to square all this, because they weren’t there for a long and very nuanced discussion that you have cherrypicked for your ad hominem attack in an unrelated thread. And pretty soon we’re relitigating a whole different thread here. That’s why you don’t do that.
> 
> That, and the fact that what I’m saying here is either right or not on its own merits. That’s fundamental to why ad hominem is a fallacy.

Putting this here because it’s kind of personal. But I think this, once again, belies your earlier claim that you don’t care about credit. You want credit, or reassurance, that no, you aren’t so bad, because you liked Obama and reparations and stuff like that.

But that’s not how it works. Racism and bigotry in society and culture are incredibly insidious forces that affect all of us in various ways, and until you (and folks like Sam Harris) consider and don’t outright reject the possibility that your beliefs, especially in things like inherent genetic intellectual inferiority and superiority, could be influenced by these insidious and powerful societal forces, you won’t get any credit or reassurance that you’re on the right side of this issue, at least not from me. I’m glad you’re not a hateful person, but making progress requires a lot more than an absence of hatred.

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