# Interesting - Virginia has absolutely \*no\* parole for convicted felons. None at all! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 25, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618 "2004-12-25T22:08:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618/1 "2004-12-25T22:08:13Z")
Interesting article. I never realized there were scenarios where parole had been abolished entirely. [Ten Years After It Eliminated Parole, Va. Considers Costs](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24991-2004Dec24.html) > [@](#): > > On a flat patch of land 25 miles from the North Carolina border, the next chapter in Virginia’s 10-year prison boom will soon rise over tobacco fields in a series of bunkerlike buildings. > > In Chatham, the state’s Department of Corrections will build one of two new 1,024-bed prisons to house the expected increase in prisoners over the next decade. A similar facility will be built nearly 200 miles away in southwest Virginia; two existing prisons will add a total of 1,400 beds. Altogether, this will create nearly 3,500 new prison beds in the commonwealth by 2007. > > The $200 million prison building and expansion program is one of the legacies of Virginia’s decision to abolish parole a decade ago. The 1994 initiative, which also established one of the country’s first strict sentencing guidelines for all convicted felons, was heralded by supporters as one of the most significant shifts in criminal justice in the commonwealth’s history. > > Parole abolition fulfilled a gubernatorial campaign promise by George Allen ®, who ran in 1993 on an anti-crime platform. Allen, now a U.S. senator, was one of the dozens of politicians nationwide who won office in an era of rising crime by pledging to toughen the justice system. > > The new system required that inmates serve at least 85 percent of their sentences before they could be released on the promise of good behavior. The changes also increased sentences for first-time offenders. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618/2 "2004-12-25T23:10:32Z")
I believe that parole no longer exists for Federal offenses, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618/3 "2004-12-26T06:43:38Z")
I’m puzzled. People have to serve at least 85% of their sentence, which implies that it’s possible to get out after serving 85% of one’s sentence. If you are serving less than 100% of your sentence, isn’t that being paroled? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618/4 "2004-12-26T07:16:58Z")
> [@Hazel](#): > > I’m puzzled. People have to serve at least 85% of their sentence, which implies that it’s possible to get out after serving 85% of one’s sentence. If you are serving less than 100% of your sentence, isn’t that being paroled? Not necessarily. In my state, a person can be released after serving 1/3 of an indeterminate sentence at the Parole Board’s discretion. That is “parole”. If a person with an indeterminate sentence is not paroled, he/she will be “conditionally released” after serving 2/3 of the sentence, after any adjustments are made for the loss of “good time” due to misbehavior while in prison. Some violent felons were sentenced to determinate sentences, and are conditionally released after serving 85% of their sentences (again, with adjustments for loss of good time). Other violent felons are released after serving 85% of a determinate sentence, and also have a period of post- release supervision. The paroled inmates spend the remaining 2/3 of their sentences being supervised by parole officers. Those conditionally released from indeterminate sentence spend the remaining 1/3 supervised by parole officers. Those conditionally released after 85% spend the last 15% supervised by parole officers, and those subject to post-release supervision spend the last 15% of the sentence _plus_ the period of post-release supervision being supervised by parole offficers. Only those released at the discretion of the parole board have been paroled, so the politicians are technically being truthful when they claim to have “eliminated parole for violent felons”. But I don’t think the average person knows about the various forms of early release, and understands the elimination of parole to be the elimination of _all_ early release. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618/5 "2004-12-26T07:17:52Z")
> [@Hazel](#): > > I’m puzzled. People have to serve at least 85% of their sentence, which implies that it’s possible to get out after serving 85% of one’s sentence. If you are serving less than 100% of your sentence, isn’t that being paroled? What she said… I be cornfused… Do they just kick them out and say they are done? Just shortening the time and not calling it parole, but release due to time served? Semantics? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618/6 "2004-12-26T09:31:56Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Not necessarily. In my state, a person can be released after serving 1/3 of an indeterminate sentence at the Parole Board’s discretion. That is “parole”. . You miss the point. In your state it’s 33% In Virginia, it’s 85%. It’s still parole, right? They just use a different cut-off point. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618/7 "2004-12-26T14:14:02Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > You miss the point. In your state it’s 33% In Virginia, it’s 85%. It’s still parole, right? They just use a different cut-off point. I guess I wasn’t clear enough . In my state, only those who are released at the discretion of the parole board are **paroled**. Those who are released by operation of law are **conditionally released**. They are _automatically_ released after serving the maximum portion of their sentence minus their “good time”. No parole board can deny their release - there is no discretion involved. It is a distinction made on the basis of the mechanism of release. It basically is semantics, as parolees and conditional releasees are still subject to supervision and must abide by the same conditions. There are a few situations, such as violations, when parolees and conditional releasees are treated diferently, but for the most part, the only difference is the the mechanism of release.But the distinction allows politicians to say that there is no parole for violent felons-they aren’t paroled, they are conditionally released. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618/8 "2004-12-26T14:40:58Z")
Let’s rework the thinking here, to help clarify terminology: There are **indeterminate sentences** and **determinate sentences**. And there are **parole** and **“good behavior”** release. Contrary to the apparent meaning of the term, an _indeterminate sentence_ is the standard “five to ten” or “twenty-five to lfie” of long term sentences – where a minimum and maximum are stated at sentencing. When a person receives an indeterminate sentence, he must serve a period of incarceration which is at least the minumum sentence handed down, and may extend from that up to the maximum, less any “good behavior” allowance provided for in the statutes. The decision on how much longer than his minimum sentence a felon must serve is up to the **discretion** of a parole board, who considers his individual case in terms of whether he has been rehabilitated and whether he remains a menace to society. If they find that there is a reasonable gamble that he can live as a law-abiding member of society, they will order him released on parole, under which he must live according to certain guidelines and have regular contact with a parole officer assigned to him. A **determinate sentence** is one in which a person is sentenced to, e.g., six months in jail or three years of prison. Period. Except for the mitigation of “good behavior” release, he is to serve the specified period, with no opportunity for parole. “Good behavior” time is a small fraction of the complete sentence, ranging from one-third in the most liberal jurisdictions to 10-15% in the most severe. What it says is that upon serving the majority of one’s sentence without having violated rules set down by the Corrections Department or prison on proper behavior while in prison, one is entitled to be released from incarceration. It serves as a “carrot” to ensure elicit conformance with those rules, since typically prisoners have only that much control over their release, and will not choose to serve an extra few years in order to raise hell in prison – something they can look forward to and will put extra effort into trying to preserve. In some states, there is an absolute release at the point when “good behavior” time kicks in; in others, the person released early on good behavior is subject to reporting for parole. The Federal system and each state have their own sentencing guidelines, including when determinate and indeterminate sentences are appropriate, what is the appropriate minimum for a given indeterminate-sentence maximum, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618/9 "2004-12-26T14:52:11Z")
Wisconsin now has “Truth in Sentencing”. Judge says “7 years in prison, 15 on community supervision”. That’s what is served. No function for the parole board at all. To get the sentence changed, one must go back to the original sentencing judge _and_ and prosecuting DA and get them both to agree to change the sentence. Which doesn’t happen. Interestingly, Wisconsin’s crime rate was already falling when “Truth in Sentencing” was implemented, and since said implementation, the rate is not falling as fast as it was before. I’m not sure what that means. And the public is now somewhat irked to be told that the abolition of parole will cost an extra $1.8 billion over the next 20 years. Here’s an interesting article on one state’s experience with the abolition of parole: [Truth in sentencing](http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov04/277059.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-virginia-has-absolutely-no-parole-for-convicted-felons-none-at-all/281618/10 "2004-12-26T15:01:14Z")
What has become of the concept of a parole being a set of restrictive rules that a newly released felon must follow, and the parole officer who he must periodically check in with? I got the impression that what VA eliminated was the after-sentence monitoring of released prisoners. I unserstood it to be a change from s system of being sentenced to ten years, serving five and being free on supervised parole for the remainder of the sentence on the one hand; to simply serving your full sentence (or 85% or whatever) and them being out with almost no strings attached. Of course, there were usually some strings attached like being unable to vote or buy guns, but there was no place they’d have to check in anymore. Of course, this is what I understood from the debate as played out in the media durring Allen’s campaign in the early 90’s. I moved away from the area in '92, so I don’t know what the reality turned out to be.