# Internal affairs police **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 2, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078 "2019-08-02T18:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/1 "2019-08-02T18:34:37Z")
I’ve seen some TV shows where they imply that a cop might be forced to join internal affairs bureau (IAB) because they did something wrong. The choice is join IAB or lose your job. Is that true in real life? (internal affairs cops investigate other cops for wrongdoing) They also imply that IAB cops are not liked at all, probably because they go against cops. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/2 "2019-08-02T18:42:55Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I’ve seen some TV shows where they imply that a cop might be forced to join internal affairs bureau (IAB) because they did something wrong. The choice is join IAB or lose your job. Is that true in real life? (internal affairs cops investigate other cops for wrongdoing) They also imply that IAB cops are not liked at all, probably because they go against cops. I have never heard of the first part, altho it is strongly suggested that a detective work several units, instead of just Vice for example (Vice cops tent to be the dirtiest) to get a promo. But yeah, they are not well liked. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/3 "2019-08-02T18:53:16Z")
Are you sure you were hearing it correctly? I would expect that a cop who did something wrong would be referred to IAB, because they’d be investigating the cop, not because he’d be joining them. The cops who “do something wrong” joining IAB would kind of be exactly opposite of the bureau’s purpose. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/4 "2019-08-02T19:07:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Are you sure you were hearing it correctly? I would expect that a cop who did something wrong would be referred to IAB, because they’d be investigating the cop, not because he’d be joining them. The cops who “do something wrong” joining IAB would kind of be exactly opposite of the bureau’s purpose. Yeah, in all my years of watching procedurals, I can’t remember a plot line of someone being forced to go work for IAB. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/5 "2019-08-02T19:18:09Z")
I may have misheard. The main example was on NYPD Blue, I think in an early season. Or since it is TV they could have just made it up. I think the guy was a friend of David Caruso’s character and he played the bagpipes if that helps anyone recall who knows the show and might remember the scene. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/6 "2019-08-02T19:27:36Z")
From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Det. Kevin Sullivan - A recruit who graduated from the police academy with John Kelly, at the start of his career\*\* he caught his partner stealing money from dead bodies and turned him in.\*\*[2] As a result, Sullivan was relegated to Internal Affairs because as a “rat”, no other officers would associate with him, including Kelly So not so much that he did something wrong, just that the other cops wouldn’t work with him. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/7 "2019-08-02T19:29:54Z")
Ah, so being punished for doing something _right_. That seems a better fit. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/8 "2019-08-02T19:30:01Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > From Wikipedia: > So not so much that he did something wrong, just that the other cops wouldn’t work with him. He in fact did something exactly right, in the eyes of everyone except a proportion of his fellow cops. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/9 "2019-08-02T19:47:05Z")
Yes Kevin Sullivan is the NYPD Blue guy I was remembering. On the show the IAB detective Jerry Martens is shown as a “good guy” who is mostly liked by the 15th squad. And the final 15th squad leader is Lt. Bale who came from IAB for the last season. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/10 "2019-08-02T19:59:20Z")
Also, most police operate under strict union contract rules with the city. And the contract generally give a high level of consideration to _seniority_ in filling assignments. (Note that even in this fictional show, that was someone who just graduated from the police academy, i.e. someone with no seniority.) Cops are expected to move around into different areas to gain experience, especially if they want to get promotions. But they are seldom forced, unless they are the lowest-seniority person. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/11 "2019-08-02T21:06:53Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Also, most police operate under strict union contract rules with the city. And the contract generally give a high level of consideration to _seniority_ in filling assignments. (Note that even in this fictional show, that was someone who just graduated from the police academy, i.e. someone with no seniority.) Contracts generally do give a great deal of consideration to seniority- but it’s also possible to be forced by circumstances. That NYPD Blue character wasn’t forced to into internal affairs by management. He was forced by circumstances - the other officers wouldn’t associate with him and he would have had a target on his back. And except in very rare circumstances, the same would have happened even if he had 5 or 10 years service when he turned the partner in. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/12 "2019-08-03T00:55:18Z")
I’ve always understood that internal affairs cops were universally and strongly disliked. Of course, my only point of reference is Lt. Ben Scanlon. mmm ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/13 "2019-08-03T01:06:36Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I’ve always understood that internal affairs cops were universally and strongly disliked. > > Of course, my only point of reference is Lt. Ben Scanlon. Its odd, but my cop buddies, altho they loved Hill Street Blues, etc, generally agreed that Barney Miller was the most realistic cop show out there. One of them retired after 30 years on the beat, as a Sgt, _never having shot anyone._ Or being shot (he was shot _at_, yes, and did do some covering fire.) ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/14 "2019-08-03T01:30:11Z")
I have had several friends go into internal affairs. The ones I know of were usually late 40’s or older. As far as I know they had good records. One was a traffic cop. This was for city of Los Angeles, they may have become disliked after going into internal affairs. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/15 "2019-08-03T01:35:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Its odd, but my cop buddies, altho they loved Hill Street Blues, etc, generally agreed that Barney Miller was the most realistic cop show out there. > > One of them retired after 30 years on the beat, as a Sgt, _never having shot anyone._ Or being shot (he was shot _at_, yes, and did do some covering fire.) The vast majority of police officers never fire a weapon in the line of duty during their careers. Your friend’s experience is hardly unusual. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/16 "2019-08-03T03:07:59Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The vast majority of police officers never fire a weapon in the line of duty during their careers. Your friend’s experience is hardly unusual. Yes, but you would beleive the opposite from TV, where even in The Rookie (a great show, btw) gun fights are common. I think he had dropped like half a dozen so far? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/17 "2019-08-03T03:49:50Z")
Well, yeah. That’s because filling out paperwork and testifying at traffic ticket trials makes for pretty boring TV. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/18 "2019-08-03T11:37:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Its odd, but my cop buddies, altho they loved Hill Street Blues, etc, generally agreed that Barney Miller was the most realistic cop show out there. > > One of them retired after 30 years on the beat, as a Sgt, _never having shot anyone._ Or being shot (he was shot _at_, yes, and did do some covering fire.) I know you are not claiming otherwise, but there were a few cop shootings on Barney Miller. Dietrich resigned after shooting someone. Barney was shot (in the finger). Harris was shot at by another cop. mmm ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/19 "2019-08-03T17:23:03Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I know you are not claiming otherwise, but there were a few cop shootings on Barney Miller. > > Dietrich resigned after shooting someone. Barney was shot (in the finger). Harris was shot at by another cop. Yes, a little violence, mostly off screen. But in 170 episodes, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078/20 "2019-08-04T01:20:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, a little violence, mostly off screen. But in 170 episodes, mind you. Agreed. mmm [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internal-affairs-police/838078.md?page=2)