# International Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 1, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553 "2010-12-01T16:47:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/341 "2010-12-16T03:12:22Z")
We apparently aren’t nearly as talkative as those blokes in London. I endeavor to go back and find the various people making the mistaken assumptions that I break in with my claim. It may not be necessarily indicative of malicious motivations, but it is data. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/342 "2010-12-16T03:13:26Z")
And weren’t you supposed to be coming back with something in respond to my claim, peeker? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/343 "2010-12-16T04:00:52Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > We apparently aren’t nearly as talkative as those blokes in London. > > I endeavor to go back and find the various people making the mistaken assumptions that I break in with my claim. It may not be necessarily indicative of malicious motivations, but it is data. and we have peeker and myself over here. How strange. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/344 "2010-12-16T04:28:33Z")
and now a few comments as I catch up on our Day. I still need to go back and see what happened in London during their Day. post 260, Scuba Ben states, " This is meaningful to me in that if we HAD had people start Today in transit to LHR, I would suspect one of the group of players-starting-in-transit would be ICR Scum." I assume LHR is London. ICR? then in post 275, he gives 3 reasons why someone might travel. All of them equally appropriate for Town or Scum (and I get that ICR is scum now) I like what Normal says in post 287, (though in true wishy-washy fashion, I think it’s also something a scummy Normal would say) The previous sentence tickled me to no end. Maybe Scuba Ben has a habit of saying things that I don’t correctly understand. But in post 288, he mentions that we can be objective towards London people and then can to us. As if we aren’t involved in the same game and don’t influence each other. Very odd. @Scuba, are you trying to say that London people shouldn’t take what Wellington people say as an attack or even bother defending against it? Or, what exactly are you trying to say? Post 290, Mahaloth seems to imply that traveling might give away powers. It’s a point which I thought we were getting away from, since traveling does not seem to indicate power. Post 295, Natlaw brings up the topic of claiming traveling abilities. I seem to remember London discussing risk/benefits to this. Have we formed an opinion? Post 302, Suburban brings up a good pint that one might not want to announce plans to travel, since it might give away powers. Of course, that would be a perfect reason for a Vanilla to travel, to give off that impression. Of course, it’s all WiFoM @Cookies, can you make one post that clarifies the timing of your vote, how it was supposed to protect someone and why you cast it as you did? I know it’s all there somewhere, but I’d like it all in one post for clarity maybe later in the game. A mental note to myself (OK, it’s an electronic note, not a mental one) to look at post 322-3 when I have a clearer mind @Peeker, why are you asking about actions that occurred prior to post 80 when the game started? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/345 "2010-12-16T05:01:41Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I submitted my vote at 12-11-2010, 04:48 PM (Pacific), during Wellington Night / London Day. It was tentative until I was able to get clarification on a few things about how my role worked a few hours later, which was when I submitted it officially. However, it was not _applied_ until London Dusk / Wellington Dawn I placed my vote for ShadowFacts because what I came away with (read: vague subjective notion) in my reading of that thread up to that point was a significant amount of discussion about people wanting to preemptively suspect travelers, in spite of (admitted skimming of) ShadowFacts’ WOW on the topic wherein he tried to disprove the very notion I held. Not the best vote I’ve ever cast, see all of the previously stated reasons why I’m trying to share the burden of wanting/needing to cast it and how. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/346 "2010-12-16T05:03:22Z")
Sorry, that wasn’t a quote, but I composed it in a window that started as a quote. I know we are allowed to edit but I don’t want to get in any bad habits for the next game where editing is bound to be verbotten. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/347 "2010-12-16T14:12:44Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > and i think it’s kind of funny that a lot of the observations are about what london did or did not do. i wonder how they will treat us when they get the chance. i mean **sach** is a devious piece of turd. to some extent it creates a them v us kind of situation (location wise). **but in both places there are them’s (scum) and us’s (town**). absolutely fascinating. So there are them-them’s and them-us’s and us-them’s and us-us’s, right? And when a them-us travels here, what do they become? An us-them-us? > [@peekercpa](#): > > it’s apparant that you traveled on your own decision. for the life of me i can’t figure out why. but that would indicate that there were some Night 0 actions that were allowed. > [@sachertorte](#): > > The game began in post #80 with Day in London and Night in Wellington. It’s Day 1 and so far you’ve speculated on the likelihood of a deporter role and the million and one possible consequences that role may have, you’ve voted **Suburban** for some wild reason no-one else has understood, you have yet to unvote him despite moderator confirmation that there was no night 0, and you state as fact that there are scum in both locations (which is probable, but not fact). Pretty normal Day 1 stuff for **Peeker** but the lack of an unvote alone is scummy enough. **Vote Peeker** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/348 "2010-12-16T14:13:55Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Post 290, Mahaloth seems to imply that traveling might give away powers. It’s a point which I thought we were getting away from, since traveling does not seem to indicate power. Snipped. I was suggesting it might, not implying it definitely does. Are we sure that the ability to travel is not connected to the use of some powers? If we are, educate me. If we aren’t, then we should be careful in having people reveal their ability to travel(as it may expose towns power roles). Tell me if I’m wrong. Your read of the game might have been better than mine. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/349 "2010-12-16T14:26:04Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Snipped. > > I was suggesting it might, not implying it definitely does. Are we sure that the ability to travel is not connected to the use of some powers? If we are, educate me. If we aren’t, then we should be careful in having people reveal their ability to travel(as it may expose towns power roles). Tell me if I’m wrong. Your read of the game might have been better than mine. I don’t think there’s any way we can be ‘sure’ at this point, but my instinct tells me that developing a game with a new mechanic this overt and tying it exclusively to power roles would be severely unbalanced. Unless we’re going to say that the ability to travel itself is a power, which I don’t agree with. I agree with the Limeys who said that there is no benefit to claiming travel ability since the ICR have no incentive to lie about it and this it doesn’t help tie them down to anything in the future. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/350 "2010-12-16T14:32:26Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > I don’t think there’s any way we can be ‘sure’ at this point, but my instinct tells me that developing a game with a new mechanic this overt and tying it exclusively to power roles would be severely unbalanced. Unless we’re going to say that the ability to travel itself is a power, which I don’t agree with. > > I agree with the Limeys who said that there is no benefit to claiming travel ability since the ICR have no incentive to lie about it and this it doesn’t help tie them down to anything in the future. I suppose travelling could be conidered a power since it is an action that can impact the game. Also, are we certain that the ICR have no incentive to lie? Did I miss something? (I honestly haven’t read all of the London Day 1 yet.) Or is it just an assumption that we are taking for fact just because it’s the safer assumption to make? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/351 "2010-12-16T14:38:57Z")
I’m not certain, but I have a hard time envisioning a scenario when the ability to travel, in and of itself, would be considered scummy. I CAN see a scenario where a Town player who cannot inherently travel is compelled to through some unknown mechanic (like \*\*peeker’s \*\*supposed deportation). If we claimed travel ability now, that player would be at risk for being gaoled for lying. It would be a tailor made situation for scum induced mislynch. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/352 "2010-12-16T14:42:02Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > I don’t think there’s any way we can be ‘sure’ at this point, but my instinct tells me that developing a game with a new mechanic this overt and tying it exclusively to power roles would be severely unbalanced. Unless we’re going to say that the ability to travel itself is a power, which I don’t agree with. > [@special\_ed](#): > > I suppose travelling could be conidered a power since it is an action that can impact the game. I think **Mahaloth** ’s question is different. We have evidence that there is not a direct correlation between travelling and being a power role but he is asking if there could be power roles who are required to travel in order to use their power: > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I was suggesting it might, not implying it definitely does. Are we sure that the ability to travel is not connected to the use of some powers? If we are, educate me. If we aren’t, then we should be careful in having people reveal their ability to travel(as it may expose towns power roles). Tell me if I’m wrong. Your read of the game might have been better than mine. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/353 "2010-12-16T14:51:30Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > @Peeker, why are you asking about actions that occurred prior to post 80 when the game started? \ i was just kind of curious if anyone had the ability to initiate anything prior to **sach** ’s game state announcement. and i kind of figured that i would get the type of reply that i got. but yaneverknow. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/354 "2010-12-16T15:05:36Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I think **Mahaloth** ’s question is different. We have evidence that there is not a direct correlation between travelling and being a power role but he is asking if there could be power roles who are required to travel in order to use their power: _blink_ as near as i can tell we have two travelers so far, right? neither of which are confirmed anything as far as i am concerned. where is the fracking evidence correlating between traveling and being or not being a power role. rut roh the pingometer is beeping. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/355 "2010-12-16T15:08:11Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > where is the fracking evidence correlating between traveling and being or not being a power role. We have a sample PM which indicates that Dual Citizen can travel but is otherwise vanilla. > [@sachertorte](#): > > Dual Citizen Role > You are a Dual Citizen. > Citizenship: New Zealand and United Kingdom > Win Condition: Arrest all members of the International Crime Ring > > You may travel freely between the United Kingdom and New Zealand. Travel must be initiated (requested) during Night of your present location. Send a PM to the moderator with your intent to travel and you will spend the next Day of your current location traveling to your new location. You will be able to participate during that Day, but cannot vote. You will be able to vote at Dawn of your destination. > > You begin the game in London, United Kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/356 "2010-12-16T15:33:07Z")
ok, **guiri** i’ll conced that the possibility exists but i don’t know that i would go so far to conclude that it is evidence that it does in fact exit. many games i have played have had a number of items/roles/whatever that may or may not be present. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/357 "2010-12-16T15:48:08Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > ok, **guiri** i’ll conced that the possibility exists but i don’t know that i would go so far to conclude that it is evidence that it does in fact exit. many games i have played have had a number of items/roles/whatever that may or may not be present. You have a different definition of ‘evidence’ than I do, then! ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/358 "2010-12-16T15:52:26Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > So there are them-them’s and them-us’s and us-them’s and us-us’s, right? And when a them-us travels here, what do they become? An us-them-us? > > It’s Day 1 and so far you’ve speculated on the likelihood of a deporter role and the million and one possible consequences that role may have, you’ve voted **Suburban** for some wild reason no-one else has understood, you have yet to unvote him despite moderator confirmation that there was no night 0, and you state as fact that there are scum in both locations (which is probable, but not fact). Pretty normal Day 1 stuff for **Peeker** but the lack of an unvote alone is scummy enough. > > Vote Peeker I’m going to follow this vote, because I find it persuasive. Peeker has poked and prodded no one except Suburban, and that on a game-mechanics issue, not a behavior issue. He has a definite tendency toward having trouble finding good reasons for early votes when he is scum. **vote: peeker** That said, I’m getting some pings from you, too, Guiri. Much like with Pleonast, I don’t know if I’ll be able to put my finger on it. But I want it out there for posterity. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/359 "2010-12-16T15:55:40Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I like what Normal says in post 287, (though in true wishy-washy fashion, I think it’s also something a scummy Normal would say) > > The previous sentence tickled me to no end. Forget tickles, how about a wedgie? I’d like to see where you’re going, if anywhere, with the dozen or so questions you asked in this post. Am anxiously awaiting your return to health. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/360 "2010-12-16T17:25:00Z")
Hi all, I’m back to the board after two RL days. I’ve read the posts since my last appearance, and updated the spreadsheet. Now to reply to the questions directed at me. Easy one here, then the detailed ones in another post. LHR is London Heathrow. WLG is Wellington. I’ve been hanging out on FlyerTalk lately, and find it easier to think of airport codes. I’ll do my best to use city names from now on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553.md?page=19)