# International Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 1, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553 "2010-12-01T16:47:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/381 "2010-12-16T22:20:55Z")
OK, so \*\*peeker \*\*is a Mason _again_? This is getting to be quite the trend now… Of course, there is absolutely no way for \*\*Astral \*\*to confirm this before Dusk, so that throws a small wrench in the proceedings… And since peeker has still failed to address his bizzare behavior earlier, and hasn’t unvoted me despite the fact that his case against me requires that either \*\*sachertorte \*\*or I are time-travelers, I’m letting my vote stand. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/382 "2010-12-16T22:25:56Z")
netata: and sorry **astral** i probably sealed your doom. since scum will most likely want you out of the way since you will be confirmed upon my death. the only way it plays out good is if i don’t get lynched (sorry sach it’s just how i term things regardless of color). if i don’t get lynched then your ass is probably otay because killing you confirms me. but from the land of lamb tenders i am just not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/383 "2010-12-16T22:32:32Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Of course, there is absolutely no way for \*\*Astral \*\*to confirm this before Dusk, so that throws a small wrench in the proceedings… How big is the wrench? Let’s say **Astral** doesn’t confirm that he too is a mason and a scummy **Peeker** can travel. What happens? Wellington Night 1/London Day 2 - peeker submits request to travel Wellington Day 2/London Night 2- peeker is in transit Wellington Night 2/London Day 3 - peeker arrives at Dawn, is lynched at dusk This claim is a pretty good way to buy time. Hmm, I need to feed the babies. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/384 "2010-12-16T22:39:34Z")
when i voted for you i felt there were some inconsistencies between the whole voluntary v unvoluntary travel thing. so you are correct i should have down this a couple hours earlier. **unvote plankton** > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > And since peeker has still failed to address his bizzare behavior earlier, and hasn’t unvoted me despite the fact that his case against me requires that either \*\*sachertorte \*\*or I are time-travelers, I’m letting my vote stand. \ HOLY FUCK you want to lynch a mason? **vote plankton** ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/385 "2010-12-16T22:56:37Z")
@ **Guiri** , The wrench is huge Today…normally a Mason claim can be more or less immediately confirmed or countered, but in this case that is impossible. So the question becomes whether we let \*\*peeker \*\*off the hook and wait for dawn to break in London, or not? I admit that my vote at the moment sounds a bit like OMGUS, and it may well be, but I still think peeker has some things to answer for, which he has steadfastly refused to do. On preview, after seeing peeker’s unvote/revote, I have this to say: There were absolutely no “inconsistencies between the whole voluntary v unvoluntary travel thing”. You were the only person who claims to have seen them, and even after several players beat you about your virtual head and shoulders you refused to see reason. It looks to me like you came out with your claim, it didn’t get everybody off your back like you thought it would, so now you’ve finally decided to remove your idiotic vote, which is what got you in trouble in the first place. You know, if you’d unvoted me earlier, you wouldn’t have needed to claim anything in the first place. And if you’d simply unvoted me here without your clever ‘unvote/revote’, that probably would have been enough for me too. But at the moment, I am not voting to lynch a Mason, I am voting to lynch _someone who says he’s a Mason_. I have no reason to believe your claim at this point. Your claim is untestable until Dawn breaks in London. Maybe a couple hours from now, I’ll unvote you, but right now you’re still at the top of my suspect list. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/386 "2010-12-16T23:03:02Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > This claim is a pretty good way to buy time. Hmm, I need to feed the babies. Babies are fed. I’m not willing to lynch a claimed mason. Let’s see what **Astral** says toMorrow, let’s see if there’s a counterclaim. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/387 "2010-12-16T23:08:40Z")
NETA: I want to reiterate something. peeker picked up votes mainly because of his inexplicable vote on me, and his refusal to remove it, or even comment on it. When he finally decided to make a statement, he could have come back and said something like: "when i voted for you i felt there were some inconsistencies between the whole voluntary v unvoluntary travel thing. so you are correct i should have down this a couple hours earlier. unvote plankton" That might well have done the trick, given that none of his other behavior was particularly Scummy, just bizarre. But instead he came out with his claim…a claim that can’t be immediately tested and which he admits will quite possibly lead to Astral’s death one way or another. Right now, I’m really on the fence about peeker. On the one hand, his claim is testable, just not right away. On the other hand, his behavior has been pissing me off (in a game-related sense only, nothing personal). There’s still plenty of time before Dusk, and my one vote can’t arrest anyone all by itself, so that’s why I’m not moving it right now. I’d like to hear from the rest of the Kiwis some more, and there are also one or two discussion items floating around that are not peeker-related that deserve some more time before Night falls. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/388 "2010-12-16T23:35:25Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > so yeh, basically you folks are lynching a mason. way to go straight dope mafia players. more to the point: way to go mason, acting scummy as scum to cloudy up the waters on Day 1 and force yourself to claim. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/389 "2010-12-16T23:36:49Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > OK, so \*\*peeker \*\*is a Mason _again_? This is getting to be quite the trend now… > > Of course, there is absolutely no way for \*\*Astral \*\*to confirm this before Dusk, so that throws a small wrench in the proceedings… > > And since peeker has still failed to address his bizzare behavior earlier, and hasn’t unvoted me despite the fact that his case against me requires that either \*\*sachertorte \*\*or I are time-travelers, I’m letting my vote stand. you’re going to keep a vote on a claimed mason on Day 1? When there’s actually a serious chance he might be lynched despite the claim? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/390 "2010-12-16T23:41:05Z")
**Unvote peeker** I believe his claim for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/391 "2010-12-16T23:42:30Z")
Suburban, what non-peeker issues do you feel need to be discussed? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/392 "2010-12-16T23:45:04Z")
Suburban, have you claimed? I thought you had, but I’m re-reading and I can not find an actual claim or full role PM from you. Did I imagine your claim? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/393 "2010-12-16T23:45:39Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > more to the point: > > way to go mason, acting scummy as scum to cloudy up the waters on Day 1 and force yourself to claim. i am not sure that my conclusion about **burby** is wrong. i always say vote for the person you think to be the most scummy. i thought he was and is so that’s where my vote went and will stay. hey, you don’t like my reasoning or my confirmability that seems to more of your folks’ problem and not mine. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/394 "2010-12-16T23:53:58Z")
neta: and sorry folks. i play this game like we need to generate discussion and therefore information. apparantly my methods are not in congruence with the rest of the crowd. and even more readily on this board as it is ill received. i’ll shut up now. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/395 "2010-12-16T23:58:35Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > \*\*Natlaw \*\*seems to want **Idle** and I to divulge information, while not expecting the same from anyone else. I understand that we are the only two players known to have any sort of travel ability at this point, but I don’t like the idea that because of the setup of the game, we are expected to behave differently than everyone else. If Natlaw wants a mass-travel-plan claim, then he should say so, but I don’t link being singled out (doubled out?) for special treatment. I agree with this. Post [#273](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13247602&postcount=273): > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I do not have any intention of traveling again and I don’t understand the reasons MetalGuy has for saying there should be some vanilla who travel. If that makes me a sitting duck, so be it. Post [#295](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13250906&postcount=295): > [@Natlaw](#): > > Related to that I would like to hear **Plankton** s and\*\* Idle\*\*s travel plans for the future. Plans can change of course with new info but I would like a baseline to compare it against (I might have skimmed it if they already laid this out earlier). Post [#302](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13251153&postcount=302) > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m not exactly sure why I’d want to answer that question. > > If I’ve made ‘travel plans’, that would suggest that I have some reason to travel, which would indicate that I’m not Vanilla. If on the other hand I intend not to travel, or I’ve made no plans at all, that would tend to indicate that I _am_ Vanilla. > > Since I am not ready at this point to make any sort of claim, I’d rather keep my future plans, if any, to myself. When I feel it is in the Town’s best interests to know, I’ll make a statement. At the moment, I don’t think there is any advantage to gain by letting everyone know what I may or may not have planned for the future. Post [#333](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13254531&postcount=333): > [@Natlaw](#): > > My reason to ask for ‘travel plans’ was however to be able to compare the reasons for travelling now with future explanations for (not) travelling. Why push you two and not continue to argue for a mass claim of travel abilities? Neither of you volunteered to travel and why should he treat you differently to the rest of us. How is this different to asking a claimed cop or roleblocker who they plan to investigate/block for the remainder of the game? What I can understand wanting to compare a player’s claim of travel abilities with future travels. I’d like to hear his reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/396 "2010-12-16T23:59:58Z")
Here’s the post I made that caused Normal to feel anxious about my health and maybe a roadmap as to where it’s leading me. > [@special\_ed](#): > > and now a few comments as I catch up on our Day. I still need to go back and see what happened in London during their Day. > > post 260, Scuba Ben states, " This is meaningful to me in that if we HAD had people start Today in transit to LHR, I would suspect one of the group of players-starting-in-transit would be ICR Scum." > > I assume LHR is London. ICR? > > then in post 275, he gives 3 reasons why someone might travel. All of them equally appropriate for Town or Scum (and I get that ICR is scum now) > > I like what Normal says in post 287, (though in true wishy-washy fashion, I think it’s also something a scummy Normal would say) > > The previous sentence tickled me to no end. > > Maybe Scuba Ben has a habit of saying things that I don’t correctly understand. But in post 288, he mentions that we can be objective towards London people and then can to us. As if we aren’t involved in the same game and don’t influence each other. Very odd. > > @Scuba, are you trying to say that London people shouldn’t take what Wellington people say as an attack or even bother defending against it? Or, what exactly are you trying to say? > > Post 290, Mahaloth seems to imply that traveling might give away powers. It’s a point which I thought we were getting away from, since traveling does not seem to indicate power. > > Post 295, Natlaw brings up the topic of claiming traveling abilities. I seem to remember London discussing risk/benefits to this. Have we formed an opinion? > > Post 302, Suburban brings up a good pint that one might not want to announce plans to travel, since it might give away powers. Of course, that would be a perfect reason for a Vanilla to travel, to give off that impression. Of course, it’s all WiFoM > > @Cookies, can you make one post that clarifies the timing of your vote, how it was supposed to protect someone and why you cast it as you did? I know it’s all there somewhere, but I’d like it all in one post for clarity maybe later in the game. > > A mental note to myself (OK, it’s an electronic note, not a mental one) to look at post 322-3 when I have a clearer mind > > @Peeker, why are you asking about actions that occurred prior to post 80 when the game started? As to Scuba Ben’s musings: Yes, it appears that anyone might have a reason to travel no matter their alignment. It’s worth noting when someone travels, but certainly not worth voting. Normal’s post 287 is still a good analysis of the flaws in Mahaloth’s thinking. It’s not a really strong Scum tell. I see it more as a strong tell of Normal’s powerful analytical mind. I still don’t agree with Scuba Ben regarding our ability to be objective about the Londoners. I see our role to maybe point out what we are noticing over there very subjectively so that they can use our insight and so that we can be held accountable for our comments regarding them. I guess that’s why I don’t like it. It almost makes it seem like we shouldn’t hold a Wellington person accountable for what they say about a Londoner. I don’t think that’s what Scuba Ben meant, but it’s how it struck me. (with all that, I still haven’t caught up on what was said during their Day. Fortunately tomorrow is the last day of the semester, though it’s followed by the school Christmas party, so it might take a couple of days for me to recover.) I understand the process that Cookies is claiming happened with her vote. I don’t much like it. Her motivations and her actions don’t quite seem to mesh. OK, maybe I’m still not completely understanding it. Posts 322-3 don’t strike me as particularly scummy, especially with peeker’s claim at this point. I’ll admit I was puzzled by peeker’s actions as I read them. Guiri’s comments actually strike me as something I might say. Of course, I might say them as Town or as Scum. So, yes, Normal, that was the long road to nowhere. I look forward to your vote. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/397 "2010-12-17T00:01:18Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > i am not sure that my conclusion about **burby** is wrong. i always say vote for the person you think to be the most scummy. i thought he was and is so that’s where my vote went and will stay. hey, you don’t like my reasoning or my confirmability that seems to more of your folks’ problem and not mine. This doesn’t sound like the usually over-confident peeker-Mason :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/398 "2010-12-17T00:02:33Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Suburban, what non-peeker issues do you feel need to be discussed? I pointed out a couple of items that bugged me in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13259444&postcount=376) post. Normal mentioned “getting some pings” from Guiri aways back. I assume other people must have seen something today that piques their curiosity. We need to arrest someone Today (OK, strictly speaking we don’t, but in practical terms we do), so who should it be? Who do you suspect at this point? > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Suburban, have you claimed? I thought you had, but I’m re-reading and I can not find an actual claim or full role PM from you. Did I imagine your claim? I have not claimed. > [@peekercpa](#): > > i am not sure that my conclusion about **burby** is wrong. i always say vote for the person you think to be the most scummy. i thought he was and is so that’s where my vote went and will stay. hey, you don’t like my reasoning or my confirmability that seems to more of your folks’ problem and not mine. peeker, please explain exactly what I did or said that you found Scummy. Leave out all of the things that you thought might possibly have happened had the rules of the game been different than they actually are, and focus only on things that actually occurred. > [@special\_ed](#): > > you’re going to keep a vote on a claimed mason on Day 1? > > When there’s actually a serious chance he might be lynched despite the claim? There’s exactly zero chance that he’s going to be lynched in the next 24 hours. There’s still plenty of time for me to change my vote… …and having said that, there is actually a lot less time than I thought. I only now realized that the Day ends tomorrow (Friday). I thought that we had until Saturday, so that we were currently 48 hours out. It wasn’t until I just checked to see exactly what time Dusk was that I realized I had overestimated the remaining length of the Day by 100%. I’m off to do a hospital visit now…I’ll think about changing my vote when I’m done there in a couple hours. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/399 "2010-12-17T00:04:04Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > How big is the wrench? > > Let’s say **Astral** doesn’t confirm that he too is a mason and a scummy **Peeker** can travel. What happens? > > Wellington Night 1/London Day 2 - peeker submits request to travel > Wellington Day 2/London Night 2- peeker is in transit > Wellington Night 2/London Day 3 - peeker arrives at Dawn, is lynched at dusk > > This claim is a pretty good way to buy time. Hmm, I need to feed the babies. It’s day one, Guiri. Who cares if it’s a claim that could buy time – it’s a mason claim. It’s confirmable by the death of either; and unless one or the other is a godfather, also _disprovable_ by a scan directed at either. Ditto death of either by hypothetical serial killer. Ditto, potentially, counterclaim. What’s to think about? **unvote** Vote at this point will probably land on you, though I think I’ll have a few minutes tomorrow morning to make it more than a gut thing (or change my mind, who knows). ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/400 "2010-12-17T00:06:58Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > So, yes, Normal, that was the long road to nowhere. I look forward to your vote. I think you meant Mental Guy up there, not Mahaloth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553.md?page=21)