# International Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 1, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553 "2010-12-01T16:47:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/421 "2010-12-17T02:37:17Z")
neta: of course he could posit that **astral** and i are pulling some shit. or maybe just me? regardeless, it will be resolved in a bit. and i think we have enough folks here that will figure out what happens. c’mon scum bastards leave your votes where they are and face certain incarceration in the Days to come after i flip. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/422 "2010-12-17T02:38:22Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > neta: of course he could posit that **astral** and i are pulling some shit. or maybe just me? regardeless, it will be resolved in a bit. and i think we have enough folks here that will figure out what happens. c’mon scum bastards leave your votes where they are and face certain incarceration in the Days to come after i flip. maybe my posts are invisible to you? I’m starting to think you don’t like me any more… ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/423 "2010-12-17T02:40:23Z")
fucking triple cross post. woot the fucking woot. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/424 "2010-12-17T02:41:00Z")
And while I’m here **vote Natlaw** for the reasons I laid out in [Post 376](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13259444&postcount=376). He’s trying to selectively draw information from Idle and I specifically. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/425 "2010-12-17T02:45:35Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > maybe my posts are invisible to you? > > I’m starting to think you don’t like me any more… i’d kind of like you more if your scum ass wasn’t trying to get my skinny ass lynched. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/426 "2010-12-17T02:46:55Z")
abbot and costello take it on the road. woot woot. just to annoy **oy**. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/427 "2010-12-17T03:10:22Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Suburban, have you claimed? I thought you had, but I’m re-reading and I can not find an actual claim or full role PM from you. Did I imagine your claim? It’s confusing, I know it took me a while to get it straight in my mind… \*\*Idle \*\*and \*\*Suburban \*\*began In Transit, but it was \*\*Idle \*\*and \*\*Pleonast \*\*who claimed right away. As for \*\*peeker’s \*\*claim, I agree it could certainly be bullshit, but I’d also bet that IF there is a mason pair in this game they will be separated between UK and NZ. If so, that would be there would be a true mason in NZ right now to counter-claim. Or it was a very ballsy claim by **peeker**. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/428 "2010-12-17T07:55:23Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > @ Cookies > > OK, so you wanted to vote in order to have your action of voting be a topic of discussion. > > I can get that. > > And you voted for someone who was tied for the lead. And he was leading the vote count when you last checked. > > Did you find Shadowfacts suspicious? Would you have voted that way were you casting just a normal vote? > > Would you have been able to cast an invisible vote on someone else and achieved the same effect? Yes, as I have tried to say a couple of times now, I found him suspicious at the time that I made my vote and until I re-read things once Wellington Day had begun, because my impression of what I did absorb from the London thread was that people were suspicious about travelers and continued to be suspicious of them when it did not seem reasonable to continue such suspicions, and in my (admittedly skimmish) reading of ShadowFacts long post in response to Drain Bead’s similar views just prior to me submitting my vote, Pleonast’s post in particular stuck in my brain as expressing the very idea that made me suspicious. Skimming in that thread, at least for me, there are a quite a few posts that start with something to the effect of: “Yeah, I agree that suspicion of travelers seems prudent…” [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] but I’ve since changed my mind.[blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] [blah] [bork] [meep] But I was wrong, and I’m admitting that was wrong, and because it there is a risk that I will continue to be wrong because my eyes glaze over when I’m not actively involved in pages and pages of conversation, I’m trying to mitigate that risk by sharing it. But since that no one but peeker seems to be interested in voicing their opinions on what they would do if they could vote in London toNight, perhaps that is yet another wrong choice that I have made. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/429 "2010-12-17T08:55:24Z")
**Unvote Suburban** I’m contemplating a Scuba vote. For one, I think it is way too early to consider a Vanilla claim suspect on its own, as he seems to propose. Then there’s this: > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > I think I’m trying to say that the two cities can analyze the other city’s posts calmer than they can analyze their own. I keep going back and forth on whether this is all one game or two sub-games. Let me preface this by saying that this game is already starting to hurt my head, because we all seem to be speaking in contradictions, even me, as you’ll see… I think it is quite clear that this is one game, not two, and by isolating play into two sub-games, we functionally cut the Town’s braintrust in half, which is bad. As badly as I’m am trying to play with the information in both locations, I think we should all be trying to play with as much information and context as can be gleaned from both. At the same time (as I have already stated, at least for me personally) I have the opposite impression of Scuba as to the non-traveling players in either location really being able to productively engaged with what is being said in the other location. I think it will be so ‘calm’ of a read that people will have to try particularly hard to engage analytically. But then not everyone is suffers from the self-centered/ADD playstyle that I do. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/430 "2010-12-17T09:15:42Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > It’s day one, Guiri. Who cares if it’s a claim that could buy time – it’s a mason claim. It’s confirmable by the death of either; and unless one or the other is a godfather, also _disprovable_ by a scan directed at either. Ditto death of either by hypothetical serial killer. Ditto, potentially, counterclaim. What’s to think about? Hey, you quoted post [#384](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13259531&postcount=383) which was an analysis of the implications of a fake claim, I’d previously unvoted in post [#380](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13259481&postcount=380) and confirmed that I was not willing to vote a claimed mason shortly after in post [#386](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13259638&postcount=386). > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > But since that no one but peeker seems to be interested in voicing their opinions on what they would do if they could vote in London toNight, perhaps that is yet another wrong choice that I have made. I laid out my main suspicions based on the events of Day 1 in [#262](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13246910&postcount=262). I may have voted for **Drain** : despite the evidence to the contrary, she voted based on an incorrect interpretation and did not unvote when additional evidence showed she was clearly wrong. Based on [#395](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13259814&postcount=395) I’m going to: **Vote Natlaw** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/431 "2010-12-17T09:43:16Z")
Yes, apologies. You and Mahaloth and Diver have made your views clear on Drain. If any of you think anyone else is more worthy of a vote over their than Drain, feel free to correct me. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/432 "2010-12-17T10:11:43Z")
FYI, I think something is awry with the Dope’s database. Symptom #1: Trying to search for all of Scuba Ben’s posts in The Game Room brought up nothing in this game for me, and I tried twice earlier tonight. I gave up and went hunting for his posts page by page. Symptom #2: I just tried to quote Sachertorte’s (corrected) Dawn post #252 ([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13246655&postcount=252](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13246655&postcount=252)) , and it keeps trying to quote Scuba Ben’s post #362 ([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13258024&postcount=362](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13258024&postcount=362)) **Anywho, it is the end of this cycle that I’m trying to confirm, because the Wellington Dawn post refers to London Day ending at 21:00 GMT Friday 17 December 2010, and Wellington Night ending at 10:00AM NZDT Tuesday 18 December 2010 (Friday 4:00PM EST 17 December 2010 for the Yanks), and I just want to make sure that the town’s being inverted as to who is in Day and who is in Night is the only error there, not any of the times.** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/433 "2010-12-17T10:30:43Z")
Natlaw’s request of our involuntary travelers does seem off. I’m willing to vote on it and leave the paradoxical look at Scuba Ben alone for now. **Vote Natlaw** If our Day indeed ends at 4:00PM EST tomorrow, I will probably be awake to check on things before the transition, and possibly change my vote. It just feels like I’m suspecting/voting more on weird statements that need to be clarified and less on things that strike me as scummy. Then again that can be a fine line. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/434 "2010-12-17T11:19:59Z")
**Cookies** , I think the Day ends at 4pm today. I’m about to leave for work and may not be back to the thread before 4pm. I’m going to have to agree that \*\*Natlaw’s \*\*fishing for Travel plans is one of the few truly suspicious things I saw Today. It isn’t much, but good enough for Day 1. **vote Natlaw** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/435 "2010-12-17T11:23:50Z")
Yes that’s what I meant. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/436 "2010-12-17T11:56:09Z")
**Unvote peeker** Because we can wait for **Astral** s confirmation. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > > [@Natlaw](#): > > > > I agree that (especially in the end game) knowing who is going to be where in the coming Days is good to know. My reason to ask for ‘travel plans’ was however to be able to compare the reasons for travelling now with future explanations for (not) travelling. > > > > With four people having claimed with no hard correlation between travel ability and powers I don’t think mass claiming has much risk but has the benefit of pinning down travel abilities I’m still in favor of it for that reason. > > > > On the other hand thinking how it could benefit scum: if they know who can travel might give them more options to regulate the travel (by either killing them or not, or perhaps other powers). > > \*\*Natlaw \*\*seems to want **Idle** and I to divulge information, while not expecting the same from anyone else. I understand that we are the only two players known to have any sort of travel ability at this point, but I don’t like the idea that because of the setup of the game, we are expected to behave differently than everyone else. If Natlaw wants a mass-travel-plan claim, then he should say so, but I don’t link being singled out (doubled out?) for special treatment. (Restored underlined part of my post in that quote). I only asked about Idle and Planktons because **Pleonast** claimed travel plan is fixed and no other travels have claimed so far. The quoted post I was re-iterating my reason to ask it because peeker seconded my question but for a different reason. I was in favor of a can/can’t/must travel claim. The only reason against it at that point was given as “travelers might be power roles” (IIRC). The mass claim didn’t seem to be happened so when I made that post I was considering claiming myself to get the ball rolling. The underlined reason was why I decided not to do it at that point. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Why push you two and not continue to argue for a mass claim of travel abilities? Neither of you volunteered to travel and why should he treat you differently to the rest of us. How is this different to asking a claimed cop or roleblocker who they plan to investigate/block for the remainder of the game? What I can understand wanting to compare a player’s claim of travel abilities with future travels. I’d like to hear his reasoning. I don’t think my question is equivalent to asking a cop or doctor to reveal their target. Those actions are hidden but traveling is not and even then it also takes half a cycle to complete. Again I asked it to compare the motivation of future travels with their current stance on traveling. This is similar to discussing for example vigilante tactics on Day One to be able to compare it with a claimed vigilante’s action later in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/437 "2010-12-17T12:05:07Z")
Since Day end is close I might as well claim now: > [@](#): > > You are Vanilla Town > Citizenship: New Zealand. > Win Condition: Arrest all members of the International Crime Ring > > You are not eligible to travel. > > You begin the game in Wellington, New Zealand. I’m actual in Europe so I’ll be back from work before Dusk to review it but for now I’ll **Vote Scuba\_Ben** Based on the ‘vanilla is a weak claim’ comment. I don’t think Suburban Plankton keeping a vote on peeker for a bit is something scum would do and I don’t have any other leads to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/438 "2010-12-17T12:12:05Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > I don’t think my question is equivalent to asking a cop or doctor to reveal their target. Those actions are hidden but traveling is not and even then it also takes half a cycle to complete. > [redacted] > This is similar to discussing for example vigilante tactics on Day One to be able to compare it with a claimed vigilante’s action later in the game. This is what I intended with my analogy except you weren’t interested in discussing tactics for a hypothetical traveler, you were only interested in **Suburban** and **Idle** ’s travel plans. > [@Natlaw](#): > > Again I asked it to compare the motivation of future travels with their current stance on traveling. Again, it’s one thing to ask everyone’s thoughts/stance on traveling and then compare their actions later in the game, it’s a whole different thing to ask two players what their specific travel plans are IMHO: > [@Natlaw](#): > > Related to that I would like to hear **Plankton** s and\*\* Idle\*\*s travel plans for the future. Plans can change of course with new info but I would like a baseline to compare it against (I might have skimmed it if they already laid this out earlier). > [@Natlaw](#): > > I agree that (especially in the end game) knowing who is going to be where in the coming Days is good to know. My reason to ask for ‘travel plans’ was however to be able to compare the reasons for travelling now with future explanations for (not) travelling. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/439 "2010-12-17T12:35:39Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Hey, you quoted post [#384](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13259531&postcount=383) which was an analysis of the implications of a fake claim, I’d previously unvoted in post [#380](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13259481&postcount=380) and confirmed that I was not willing to vote a claimed mason shortly after in post [#386](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13259638&postcount=386). Just lynch me now. I’m in no shape to play mafia games. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/440 "2010-12-17T12:38:44Z")
For those who are saying that fishing for travel plans is scummy – what’s the motivation? I can think of a town one – pin down what is effectively a mod-enforced soft claim. I’m having a hard time thinking why the scum would care. Then again I’m having a hard time thinking at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553.md?page=23)