# International Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 1, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553 "2010-12-01T16:47:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/581 "2010-12-22T17:34:24Z")
> [@Mrs\_McGinty](#): > > It’s hard to imagine anybody not grasping that peeker looks innocent, that Guiri has some town cred, or that some other people look more suspect based on their votes. Sorry my analysis was not brilliant enough for you. My brain must have been dazzled last night by your own scintillating contributions. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/582 "2010-12-22T17:36:30Z")
T24:00 post #491 Rysto replaces Drain Bead in all Votes. Rysto(2): Romanic(504) ShadowFacts(506) Rin Twisted(1): [del]Wolverine(505-571)[/del] Rysto(538) ShadowFacts(3): NAF1138(520) Mrs McGinty(526) MentalGuy(532) Romanic(1): MHaye(527) Mrs McGinty(1): Wolverine(571) ---
**Author:** ![Mrs\_McGinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6bbea6/32.png) [@Mrs\_McGinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs_McGinty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/583 "2010-12-22T17:48:42Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Sorry my analysis was not brilliant enough for you. My brain must have been dazzled last night by your own scintillating contributions. Why don’t you try and convince the rest of us to follow your vote on Rysto? Or, if you’re no longer sure about that, try someone else. Hey, I’ve already got a vote from Wolverine. Instead of being sarcastic about our relative contributions, you could try to pin a case on me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/584 "2010-12-22T17:55:23Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > (bolding mine) > > You do realize that you are voting for me, right? How do you jive that with the bolded comment? Why would **NP’s** hypothetical scum partners come after me if I’m scum? Okay, I will try again. If you are scum, they wouldn’t be coming after you. I am just acknowledging that I could be wrong. There are various possibilities: A: You are scum and I am voting correctly. B: You are not scum, I am mistaken, and the scum team is trying to create a bandwagon on you. C: You are not scum, I am mistaken, but the actual scum are leaving you alone. Just because I think option A is most likely, that doesn’t mean I am totally disregarding the possibilities of B and C. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/585 "2010-12-22T18:12:43Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I claimed Vanilla Town yesterDay. Not planning to change that. 😉 You did, didn’t you. Good good then. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/586 "2010-12-22T18:14:39Z")
Just to be sure I am thinking correctly, the Day ends toDay at 4PM Est right? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/587 "2010-12-22T18:16:08Z")
**does pleo’s vote for Mrs. McGinty not count or is the vote count mistaken?** ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/588 "2010-12-22T18:38:48Z")
I’m not the mod, but his vote does not count because he is in transit. ( **sach** says it in the opening post for toDay). ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/589 "2010-12-22T18:42:18Z")
The vote count is correct as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/590 "2010-12-22T18:47:18Z")
Hmmm. Pleo, it would be nice of you not to place official votes that don’t count. It confuses the simple minded among us. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/591 "2010-12-22T18:49:32Z")
Also, have we talked about Pleo’s travel plans yet at all? I don’t recall seeing any discussion of such. ---
**Author:** ![Romanic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Romanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Romanic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/592 "2010-12-22T19:05:17Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Just to be sure I am thinking correctly, the Day ends toDay at 4PM Est right? Yeah, I think every day ends at 4 PM EST. Sachertorte wrote that somewhere. > [@NAF1138](#): > > Also, have we talked about Pleo’s travel plans yet at all? I don’t recall seeing any discussion of such. Pleonast’s travel plans? What is there to talk about? According to his claim, Pleo has to travel whenever possible, which means every 3 _turns_. There is nothing to plan, it’s being forced on him. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/593 "2010-12-22T19:07:19Z")
Rysto (formerly DB) MentalGuy MHaye Mrs McGinty NAF1138 Rin Twisted Romanic ShadowFacts Wolverine Pleo - Traveling 9 players in London, 7 (probably) by morning if no one else travels. If there are any other townies who can travel voluntarily, might I suggest scooting over to the other side of the world post hast so we can get rid of the London community quick-ish? It might help streamline things a bit. This is scummier than hell, but I am getting cold feet about Shadow. I sort of want to ride it out to the end but after his last series of posts I am genuinely unsure that I have made a good call. I wish that Rin Twisted was around and voting. I wish that MHaye was participating more I wish that Romanic would get active again. Mostly I wish that I thought I could get London on board with a mass claim because right now I feel like I am trying to put together a puzzle with too many missing pieces and there isn’t enough action for me to push anyone around, and I wasted too much time today already anyway. I feel like we have screwed something up along the way, and I don’t know what. I don’t like the Rysto train. I don’t want to unvote Shadow and cause a tie with that train, I like Shadow’s lynch more still. I think that the McGinty voting is interesting but I don’t know that I want to join it, again wishing I hadn’t missed so much of the Day and that the action wasn’t all happening near the end. I am also halfway tempted to vote for Romanic because something is off there, even if I can’t figure out what it is right now. In the end I think I am going to stand pat unless some other changes happen. I started this post with the intention of making a move, and I don’t know that there are any moves I can make that won’t make things worse right now. Don’t you hate self doubt? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/594 "2010-12-22T19:09:53Z")
> [@Romanic](#): > > Yeah, I think every day ends at 4 PM EST. Sachertorte wrote that somewhere. > > Pleonast’s travel plans? What is there to talk about? > > According to his claim, Pleo has to travel whenever possible, which means every 3 _turns_. There is nothing to plan, it’s being forced on him. Plans was just a turn of phrase. I meant had we discussed his traveling. You have to forgive my lack of grasp on all the details of the game so far, there is a lot that I didn’t pay enough attention to while I was distracted over the last couple of weeks. I am usually ok with playing the player not the setup in these sorts of situations, but I am finding myself needing to go back to looking at the setup because I don’t like where I am finding myself in my understanding of what is going on. I am going to start saying some stupid stuff that will clearly show that I don’t remember a lot of what happened on Day 1. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/595 "2010-12-22T19:11:38Z")
And see, that’s the sort of post that makes me wonder about you Romanic. The picking of nits as though those nits mean something. If you genuinely didn’t understand what I meant, that’s fine, but I am not sure that it really mattered. At any rate, I am glad to see you posting again in these last couple of game Day hours. ---
**Author:** ![Romanic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Romanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Romanic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/596 "2010-12-22T19:41:54Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > If there are any other townies who can travel voluntarily, might I suggest scooting over to the other side of the world post hast so we can get rid of the London community quick-ish? > > It might help streamline things a bit. Not sure that I agree with that. It’s a good assumption to say that London has at least as many scum, if not more, than Wellington, so keeping townies in London is a good way to reduce the scum’s control over the voting. Besides, someone moving to Wellington will bring mud to a clear situation (as I previously posted, many Kiwis have town creds for lynching Natlaw, and there’s only 4 prime suspects in my mind). Right now, I think townies in London should stay put so that we don’t lose votes. If townies have to travel, I think it’s the Kiwis who should come help us. > [@NAF1138](#): > > I wish that Romanic would get active again. Hey, I’m here now. 🙂 > [@NAF1138](#): > > Mostly I wish that I thought I could get London on board with a mass claim because right now I feel like I am trying to put together a puzzle with too many missing pieces and there isn’t enough action for me to push anyone around, and I wasted too much time today already anyway. I feel like we have screwed something up along the way, and I don’t know what. We don’t have enough time for a mass claim, and I’m not sure how it would help really, since ShadowFacts, who’s leading, claimed vanilla without travel powers, so the votes are not likely to change no matter what someone else will claim. > [@NAF1138](#): > > And see, that’s the sort of post that makes me wonder about you Romanic. The picking of nits as though those nits mean something. If you genuinely didn’t understand what I meant, that’s fine, but I am not sure that it really mattered. > > At any rate, I am glad to see you posting again in these last couple of game Day hours. What’s wrong about it? I am trying to get people to talk, and I think you’ll agree with me that it is something we needed at the beginning of this day. In the case of the previous post, I think that asking about Pleo’s travel plan was something who needed to be addressed. First this is exactly what got Natlaw lynched, and it’s a mistake of you to bring it like this. Second, I believe there’s not much to talk about Pleo’s plans, since he claimed his hand is being forced every turn. You bringing this to the discussion like 2 hours before the deadline may not be a good idea either. Anyway, yeah I’ll pick up on everything that I find suspect, people will just have to live with it or dispose of me. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/597 "2010-12-22T19:46:54Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > If there are any other townies who can travel voluntarily, might I suggest scooting over to the other side of the world post hast so we can get rid of the London community quick-ish? Not sure what you’re getting at here? Are you saying that townies should be leaving London right now? What’s the reasoning? And why on earth do you bring this up a couple of hours before the deadline? By my understanding of the rules, anybody who wants to leave London will have to get their order in toNight, so you’re really not leaving much time for figuring out what the best thing for us to do is. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/598 "2010-12-22T19:47:05Z")
> [@Romanic](#): > > Anyway, yeah I’ll pick up on everything that I find suspect, people will just have to live with it or dispose of me. Ok, two things. 1. I don’t mind you \*picking \*on things you find suspect. It’s the \*things \*you find suspect that is ringing my bell, if that makes sense. 2. This might be a case of genuine misunderstanding of the meaning of my post. The travel plans I was talking about was the trip that Pleo is currently taking. We didn’t discuss it at all. The fact that it was a forced trip was forgotten by me, but that isn’t really the point. The point is that it was a topic that could have been discussed and no one said anything and that seemed strange, so I just wanted to see if I missed something. I did, on Day 1 as it turns out. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/599 "2010-12-22T19:49:13Z")
> [@Mrs\_McGinty](#): > > Why don’t you try and convince the rest of us to follow your vote on Rysto? Or, if you’re no longer sure about that, try someone else. Hey, I’ve already got a vote from Wolverine. Instead of being sarcastic about our relative contributions, you could try to pin a case on me. 🙂 I don’t really know what else to say about Rysto/DB. It feels like it has been hashed to death and it would be a waste of time to revisit it. So I’ll take your other suggestion instead. The Case Against Mrs. McGinty Here is what she said on Day One: [Post 111](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13225853&postcount=111) - Suggests keeping travel info to ourselves. No problem here - discussing the topic at hand. [155](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13230026&postcount=155) - Disagrees with Pleonast about her position from 111. A continuation. [181](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13233368&postcount=181) - Continues the argument with Pleonast. Starting to get a little heated. [185](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13233368&postcount=185) - The same continued. Still not seeing anything scummy here - just arguing forcefully for her point of view. [Post 231](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13243093&postcount=231) - Votes for me, referencing Astral’s case. A very lazy bandwagon vote, which I immediately called her on in 238. Defends that lazy vote with “Meh. It’s the first day with sod all to go on and a straight choice between two players I don’t know.” Day Two: [Post 501](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13265333&postcount=501) - Agrees with Drain Bead that peeker is confirmed, smudging Pleonast in the process. Not sure why she bothered posting this, since it is obvious to anyone who did a cursory read of Wellington, and it has nothing to do with toDay’s lynch. 😃 (That there is sarcasm, for those whose detectors are misaligned). Post 526 - Votes for me again. There are the minor outlines of an actual case here, but it’s mostly just another “me, too” vote. Post 556 - (Not going to link, it’s right here on this page] - Says I am spending too much time “trying to look innocent” instead of finding scum. Aside from being blatantly hypocritical, she has clearly already made up her mind about me. 558 - Suggest I should find scum. 560 - Says that this interaction with me is her effort at scumfinding, and says I am posting “a whole bunch of other stuff that has no bearing on today’s lynch.” 562 - Repeats assertion that I am trying to look townie rather than finding scum. _563 - I demolish that assertion._ 😛 566 - Repeats assertions again. Third time now that she has said I am trying to look townie instead of finding scum. Still does not point to specific posts. 568 - Admits “exaggeration” in her calling my posts “tons of other crap.” 573 - Minimizes the value of my analysis of Wellington, and suggests it would be a waste of her time to do something similar. 577 - Responds to Wolverine’s vote of her. 579 - Respond to Pleonast, again diminishes the value of my Wellington analysis. 583 - Suggests I try to build a case against her… So, there you go, everybody. My thoughts: Nothing particularly outrageous or interesting on Day One, until her lazy vote on me. It’s definitely anti-town, possibly scummy. Day Two she contributed almost nothing of value before coming in and saying I look scummy for defending myself and posting an analysis of Wellington. _shrug_ I think her actions toDay speak for themselves and I think it’s clear who comes out of our exchanges looking scummier. **Unvote Rysto Vote Mrs. McGinty** ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553/600 "2010-12-22T19:51:19Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Not sure what you’re getting at here? Are you saying that townies should be leaving London right now? What’s the reasoning? And why on earth do you bring this up a couple of hours before the deadline? By my understanding of the rules, anybody who wants to leave London will have to get their order in toNight, so you’re really not leaving much time for figuring out what the best thing for us to do is. I am bringing it up now, because I play selfishly and I need a new topic of discussion to work with since after looking over the Day several times this morning I came to the conclusion that no matter how Shadow flips I don’t think that I am going to have learned anything new toDay and that makes me very nervous particularly when the town is getting down to very few players left. Time is only a factor in the sense that in two hours time (less now) we have to stop talking and I am trying to throw everything I am thinking about out on the table before the Day ends in the hopes that something is made clear. Traveling may be a bad idea, it may be brilliant, it may be neither, I don’t really know, but it was a thought I had. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-mafia/562553.md?page=31)