# International opinion of the USA under Obama is far, far better than it was under Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 30, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654 "2014-05-30T18:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/21 "2014-06-01T09:35:31Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > And I care because…? Lol, Obama sucks. I’m glad there are millions of sheep out there. I’m pretty sure the leaders of China, Russia, North Korea, Syria and the rest of them also prefer Obama to Bush. Citation needed. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/22 "2014-06-01T10:17:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Fuzzy\_wuzzy** , does bin Laden also prefer Obama to Bush? Note I said \*most \*of the bad guys not all of them. Plus, Osama’s death was not due to any particular policy change decision between Bush and Obama. Whether you like it or not the US now has a foreign policy conservative as President. Never mind though, just keep believing that popularity somehow equals respect. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/23 "2014-06-01T10:41:10Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Note I said \*most \*of the bad guys not all of them. Plus, Osama’s death was not due to any particular policy change decision between Bush and Obama. Whether you like it or not the US now has a foreign policy conservative as President. Never mind though, just keep believing that popularity somehow equals respect. So Obama is a foreign policy conservative. But people around the world don’t respect his foreign policy. Are you agreeing that a conservative foreign policy doesn’t get respect or did you just get lost in the middle of your argument? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/24 "2014-06-01T10:52:29Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > **And I care because** …? Lol, Obama sucks. Ladies and gentlemen, I present the modern conservative. Hatred without reason. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/25 "2014-06-01T11:30:40Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Plus, Osama’s death was not due to any particular policy change decision between Bush and Obama. Obama told his Nat’l Security team that getting Bin Laden was a priority. Bush said Bin Laden didn’t matter any more. Sounds like a big difference to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/26 "2014-06-01T12:44:59Z")
That, and Obama also made the foreign-policy decision to use the intelligence community to gather intelligence, instead of using it to promote his agenda. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/27 "2014-06-01T12:45:12Z")
Bush was just playing nine dimensional checkers. He was going to lull ObL into a false sense of security, so maybe we could nail him on his way to the 7-11. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/28 "2014-06-01T14:08:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So Obama is a foreign policy conservative. But people around the world don’t respect his foreign policy. Are you agreeing that a conservative foreign policy doesn’t get respect or did you just get lost in the middle of your argument? I quite obviously did not say that. I said that this President is a conservative one in regards to foreign policy. A conservative one that is quite happy with the status quo. The same conservative State Dept types who throughout the Cold War period(and beyond) were happiest when the international situation was stable rather than when regimes were being overthrown. An Administration that believes drawing a line in the Syrian sand and letting others cross that line can somehow maintain respect. Yes, I can see how \*that \*Administration would be popular abroad; popular but not respected. A different conservative Administration may have played that line in the sand card a bit more effectively. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/29 "2014-06-01T14:12:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Obama told his Nat’l Security team that getting Bin Laden was a priority. Bush said Bin Laden didn’t matter any more. > > Sounds like a big difference to me. I suspect this is not true. In fact im fairly sure it has been garbled in transmission. Yes, I can see a situation where Bush says getting Bin Laden is no longer top priority(even here that would be a more face saving statement due to the Bush administration’s inability to kill Bin Laden). Im fairly certain Bush would not have said “Bin laden doesn’t matter any more”. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/30 "2014-06-01T14:55:57Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I suspect this is not true. In fact im fairly sure it has been garbled in transmission. Yes, I can see a situation where Bush says getting Bin Laden is no longer top priority(even here that would be a more face saving statement due to the Bush administration’s inability to kill Bin Laden). Im fairly certain Bush would not have said “Bin laden doesn’t matter any more”. And you would be wrong. From a press conference held on March 13, 2002 (less than a year after 9/11): > [@](#): > > Q: But don’t you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won’t truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive? > > BUSH: Well, as I say, we haven’t heard much from him. And I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don’t know where he is. I – I’ll repeat what I said. **I truly am not that concerned about him.** I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban. Emphasis added. Now, some people have conflated that statement with remarks he made a few months earlier where he said: > [@](#): > > A fellow came the other day to the office, and said, well, are you worried about Mr. bin Laden? I said, no, I’m not too worried about him. He’s the guy that needs to be worried. **But I want to assure you, the objective is not bin Laden.** Oh, we’ll get bin Laden. There’s only so many caves he can hide in, if he’s still hiding in caves. My attitude was, once we get him running, it’s just a matter of time before we bring him to justice." So, while Bush just sort of assumed that we would eventually get bin Laden, it is apparent that getting him was not at all a priority for his administration (they’d moved on to Iraq). ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/31 "2014-06-01T15:40:14Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > And you would be wrong. From a press conference held on March 13, 2002 (less than a year after 9/11): > Emphasis added. > > Now, some people have conflated that statement with remarks he made a few months earlier where he said: > So, while Bush just sort of assumed that we would eventually get bin Laden, it is apparent that getting him was not at all a priority for his administration (they’d moved on to Iraq). All of which is entirely different to claiming that Bush said “getting Bin Laden didn’t matter any more”. All you are using as evidence is a difference of emphasis Bush used in two public speeches; no-one should confuse public pronouncements with settled US policy. Its interesting how you bring Iraq into the debate as to suggest some sort of condemnation for not prioritizing Bin Laden. I can quite as easily suggest that destroying the Al Qaeda network became the priority rather than destroying Bin Laden himself. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/32 "2014-06-01T16:06:46Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I can quite as easily suggest that destroying the Al Qaeda network became the priority rather than destroying Bin Laden himself. If so, then you’re directly contradicting this statement you made in post #22: > [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Plus, Osama’s death was not due to any particular policy change decision between Bush and Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/33 "2014-06-01T16:18:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If so, then you’re directly contradicting this statement you made in post #22: I stated that I could suggest destroying the Al Qaeda network became priority, not that it actually was the priority. I said this in response to a previous poster claiming that killing Bin Laden was not a priority _only_ due to Iraq. If someone can come up with internal documents that stated that “Bin Laden didn’t matter any more” under the Bush regime then I would welcome seeing the documents. I’ll be waiting some time I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/34 "2014-06-01T16:28:45Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I stated that I could suggest destroying the Al Qaeda network became priority, not that it actually was the priority. I said this in response to a previous poster claiming that killing Bin Laden was not a priority _only_ due to Iraq. If someone can come up with internal documents that stated that “Bin Laden didn’t matter any more” under the Bush regime then I would welcome seeing the documents. I’ll be waiting some time I suspect. Bush said, publicly, he didn’t care that much about (was not concerned with) getting Bin Laden. Bush failed for over 7 years to get Bin Laden. Obama said, publicly, and from the very beginning of his campaign, that he was very concerned with getting Bin Laden and would make it a priority. Obama succeeded after about 2 years in getting Bin Laden. Based on those pieces of evidence, it’s pretty reasonable to believe that Obama’s success in getting Bin Laden had something to do with his making it a higher priority than Bush did. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/35 "2014-06-01T16:31:38Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > All of which is entirely different to claiming that Bush said “getting Bin Laden didn’t matter any more”. All you are using as evidence is a difference of emphasis Bush used in two public speeches; no-one should confuse public pronouncements with settled US policy. Its interesting how you bring Iraq into the debate as to suggest some sort of condemnation for not prioritizing Bin Laden. I can quite as easily suggest that destroying the Al Qaeda network became the priority rather than destroying Bin Laden himself. Actually, you’re the one that suggested that Bush wouldn’t have said “Bin laden doesn’t matter any more”. I pointed out that you were wrong (although, no, he didn’t use those EXACT words). I mentioned Iraq simply as a statement of fact. They had, in fact, moved on from Afghanistan to Iraq (and al Queda was not used as any sort of justification for the invasion of Iraq). ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/36 "2014-06-01T16:33:20Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I stated that I could suggest destroying the Al Qaeda network became priority, not that it actually was the priority. I said this in response to a previous poster claiming that killing Bin Laden was not a priority _only_ due to Iraq. If someone can come up with internal documents that stated that “Bin Laden didn’t matter any more” under the Bush regime then I would welcome seeing the documents. I’ll be waiting some time I suspect. Find the word “only” in my post. Hint: it ain’t there, you added it to create a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/37 "2014-06-01T16:58:53Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Actually, you’re the one that suggested that Bush wouldn’t have said “Bin laden doesn’t matter any more”. I pointed out that you were wrong (although, no, he didn’t use those EXACT words). > > I mentioned Iraq simply as a statement of fact. They had, in fact, moved on from Afghanistan to Iraq (and al Queda was not used as any sort of justification for the invasion of Iraq). The important part of your post being “although, no, he didn’t use those EXACT words”. We find the words he did use were: “I truly am not **that** concerned about him”. The word “ **that** ” being all important. The word “that” is a huge get out clause for Bush in any accusation that he was not concerned about Bin Laden. Its a difference of degree not policy. If Bush instead said “we ain’t going after Bin Laden” now that _would_ be a change in policy. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/38 "2014-06-01T17:13:10Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Find the word “only” in my post. Hint: it ain’t there, you added it to create a strawman. You did however directly suggest that going after Bin Laden was not so important because of Iraq(you gave no other possible reason). You may have just “accidentally” left out other possible reasons; only you know if this omission was by accident. I simply thought it worthwhile to point out other possible reasons. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/39 "2014-06-01T18:08:01Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > The important part of your post being “although, no, he didn’t use those EXACT words”. > > We find the words he did use were: “I truly am not **that** concerned about him”. The word “ **that** ” being all important. The word “that” is a huge get out clause for Bush in any accusation that he was not concerned about Bin Laden. Its a difference of degree not policy. If Bush instead said “we ain’t going after Bin Laden” now that _would_ be a change in policy. Making the mission of getting Bin Laden a high priority vice a low priority is a change in policy. Semantics, blah blah. Anyway, Obama was right to make it a high priority, and Bush was wrong to make it a low priority. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/40 "2014-06-01T19:02:26Z")
I think that’s mostly true in Europe but then Bush was hamfisted in his diplomacy and Europeans generally don’t like “strong” American Presidents\* as it reminds them that they outsourced their defense to the US generations ago. \*not suggesting that Obama hasn’t been a strong President foreign policy wise, he has, but that he does it whiles appearing considerate and caring and without upsetting the French. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654.md?page=3)