# International opinion of the USA under Obama is far, far better than it was under Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 30, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654 "2014-05-30T18:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/41 "2014-06-01T19:04:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Anyway, Obama was right to make it a high priority, and Bush was wrong to make it a low priority. It didn’t really work that way. Bush was involved in two wars and frankly the intelligence wasn’t there to get Bin Laden until many years after the invasion of Afghanistan. Obama continued the intelligence gathering started by Bush and then executed on it when the opportunity presented itself. It’s not a Bush/Obama issue. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/42 "2014-06-03T20:18:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Anyway, Obama was right to make it a high priority, and Bush was wrong to make it a low priority. I much prefer Obama to Bush for any number of reasons, but I actually doubt that in actually there was that much of a difference in the priority assigned by the two presidents. Bush would have loved nothing better than to show up with Bin Laden’s head on a pike, but had been utterly unsuccessful in tracking down Bin Laden. So in a sour grapes sort of way he decided to say that he wasn’t interested in Bin Laden, and could you please quit nagging him about it. This was of course an extremely bad thing to say politically, but probably better than saying that he had been trying as hard as he could for seven years but had failed to find Bin Laden and had no prospects of finding him any time soon. Meanwhile was running as much against Bush’s legacy as he was against McCain saw an opportunity to exploit a weakness by saying that unlike Bush he would make it a priority. Fortunately, as it happened the CIA got a break on Obama’s watch and Obama was able to keep his promise.\* But I doubt that it was a change in priority that gave the CIA the break it needed. \*That’s not to say that Obama doesn’t deserve some credit. The choice to act on that information in the way he did was a gutsy move that could have massively backfired. ---
**Author:** ![RadioWave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/91b2a8/32.png) [@RadioWave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioWave)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/43 "2014-06-03T22:18:58Z")
I don’t think you can let Bush off that easy. We knew that Bin Laden was in the Afghanistan/Pakistan area yet Bush reassigned troops, equipment and intelligence away from that theater in order to focus on Iraq. By early February, not even six months since 9/11, the top anti-terrorist unit (Task Force 5) was withdrawn from Afghanistan in order to prepare for Iraq. Spy planes, predators and satellites were likewise retasked. All Arabic speaking CIA intelligence members in the area were reassigned to Iraq. In July 2006, the CIA completely shut down it’s division responsible for hunting Bin Laden. Combine that with the PNAC papers and it’s pretty clear that Bush was far more interested in invading Iraq than he ever was in finding Bin Laden. As for Obama, within six months of taking office, he sent a directive to Leon Panetta specifically telling him to make locating OBL a top priority. No offense, but it seems like a night and day difference in priorities to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/44 "2014-06-03T22:51:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Lochdale** : > > It didn’t really work that way. Bush was involved in two wars and frankly the intelligence wasn’t there to get Bin Laden until many years after the invasion of Afghanistan. The intelligence wasn’t there because Bush ordered it not to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/45 "2014-06-03T23:19:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Making the mission of getting Bin Laden a high priority vice a low priority is a change in policy. Semantics, blah blah. > > Anyway, Obama was right to make it a high priority, and Bush was wrong to make it a low priority. There’s also another critical difference. If Bush was trying to capture or kill bin Ladin then he failed. The only way you can argue that Bush didn’t fail in this is to say he wasn’t trying. Obama set out to capture or kill bin Ladin and he succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/46 "2014-06-03T23:29:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Fuzzy\_wuzzy** , does bin Laden also prefer Obama to Bush? Osama bin Laden/Al Qaeda loved Bush. IIRC there was a leaked CIA report that the releases of [bin Laden’s tapes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videos_and_audio_recordings_of_Osama_bin_Laden) were apparently deliberately timed to whip up fervor for Bush & his aggression whenever he appeared to be losing steam. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Bush would have loved nothing better than to show up with Bin Laden’s head on a pike, but had been utterly unsuccessful in tracking down Bin Laden. No, he wouldn’t. Osama bin Laden never mattered to him at all; he was after Iraq, bin Laden was just a distraction. If anything he was more useful to Bush as an uncaught bogeyman. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/47 "2014-06-03T23:29:43Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I much prefer Obama to Bush for any number of reasons, but I actually doubt that in actually there was that much of a difference in the priority assigned by the two presidents. > > Bush would have loved nothing better than to show up with Bin Laden’s head on a pike, but had been utterly unsuccessful in tracking down Bin Laden. So in a sour grapes sort of way he decided to say that he wasn’t interested in Bin Laden, and could you please quit nagging him about it. This was of course an extremely bad thing to say politically, but probably better than saying that he had been trying as hard as he could for seven years but had failed to find Bin Laden and had no prospects of finding him any time soon. > > Meanwhile was running as much against Bush’s legacy as he was against McCain saw an opportunity to exploit a weakness by saying that unlike Bush he would make it a priority. Fortunately, as it happened the CIA got a break on Obama’s watch and Obama was able to keep his promise.\* But I doubt that it was a change in priority that gave the CIA the break it needed. We all know now that bin Ladin was living in Pakistan and he wasn’t making that much of an effort to hide. The Bush administration apparently had made a decision not to offend Pakistan by running operations in that country. The issue came up during the 2008 campaign and the candidates offered different positions. McCain essentially said he would follow Bush’s policy: Pakistan is an ally and he wasn’t going to abuse that alliance. Obama said that he would conduct secret operations in Pakistan if he felt they were necessary. So it does seem that there was a change in priorities after Obama became President. We were no longer “hands off” in Pakistan. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/48 "2014-06-04T00:46:35Z")
As others have pointed out, Obama’s foreign policy weakness is not negated by an opinion poll about “doing the right thing”. Foreign policy strength is determined by successful implementation of your policies and goals, not opinion polls. And sadly, Obama has been slapped down time and time again every time he tries to set the tone. And most Americans, if they don’t have their head up Obama’s ass, can see that. Just look at any recent poll on Obama’s approval rating w/ regards to foreign policy. It is clear to most that he’s not doing well. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/49 "2014-06-04T00:51:37Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > As others have pointed out, Obama’s foreign policy weakness is not negated by an opinion poll about “doing the right thing”. > > Foreign policy strength is determined by successful implementation of your policies and goals, not opinion polls. And sadly, Obama has been slapped down time and time again every time he tries to set the tone. > > And most Americans, if they don’t have their head up Obama’s ass, can see that. Just look at any recent poll on Obama’s approval rating w/ regards to foreign policy. It is clear to most that he’s not doing well. Lots of wrongness here, most of it of the opinion variety. Here’s my take: he got us out of Iraq, he got Bin Laden, he’s getting us out of Afghanistan (slower than I’d prefer), far fewer Americans have died both inside our borders and abroad due to enemy attacks and terrorism then in the previous administration, and he didn’t get us embroiled in any foreign quagmires. Sounds like a pretty damn strong record to me, especially speaking as a veteran. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/50 "2014-06-04T04:14:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The intelligence wasn’t there because Bush ordered it not to be there. And furthermore - “International Opinion” of America, I’m sure, has nothing at all to do with how successful intelligence gathering operations are, how many people are willing to co-operate with America and the general way that intelligence operations can be conducted. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/51 "2014-06-04T23:33:28Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Ladies and gentlemen, I present the modern conservative. Hatred without reason. I’m interested in how you derived “hatred” from my response. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/52 "2014-06-05T10:44:32Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I’m interested in how you derived “hatred” from my response. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > And I care because…? Lol, Obama sucks. I’m glad there are millions of sheep out there. I’m pretty sure the leaders of China, Russia, North Korea, Syria and the rest of them also prefer Obama to Bush. What would you call it? It’s certainly not “apathy”. Possibly “disdain”, but given how much space Obama is renting in your head, that seems kind of a weak term as well. It’s certainly not merely “dislike”. I didn’t hate Bush, but I complained about him a lot less than you complain about Obama. I’m sure you’re perfectly willing to argue that you don’t hate Obama. From the outside, though, it’s pretty obvious you do. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/53 "2014-06-05T13:42:12Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > An Administration that believes drawing a line in the Syrian sand and letting others cross that line can somehow maintain respect. Yes, I can see how \*that \*Administration would be popular abroad; popular but not respected. A different conservative Administration may have played that line in the sand card a bit more effectively. Well, I think even Bush had enough sense not to attack a country that had actual WMDs. I think harping on this ‘line in the sand’ business comes from warmongers who thought they’d get another invasion and were disappointed. Obama used threats to get Syria’s WMD stockpiles/program dismantled (or mostly, anyway). I don’t think a hostile fellow like Assad would go along with that if he wasn’t afraid of Obama’s threats. Now, if we decide military action is the only option left in Syria, we won’t have to worry about Assad’s forces launching sarin gas at the rebels, his neighbors, our troops, and so on. People who like war for its own sake may not like it, but I think Syria has been handled well. The place is a disaster with or without our military intervention. We’re better off without. ---
**Author:** ![7\_11\_9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/e79b87/32.png) [@7\_11\_9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/7_11_9)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/54 "2014-06-05T14:10:41Z")
iiandyiiii, while I agree with your conclusion based on the figures quoted I have zero confidence in the source of the numbers. The stock market prices, unemployment figures, inflation figures, gold and silver prices and all pertinent information originating with or backed by the administration have no basis in reality and are merely propaganda disseminated to the public through the bought off media in order to manipulate attitudes favorable to the bureaucracy’s agenda of world hegemony and total control. Obama and this administration have no scruples when it comes to truth; it lives by the lie… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/55 "2014-06-05T14:16:05Z")
> [@7\_11\_9](#): > > iiandyiiii, while I agree with your conclusion based on the figures quoted I have zero confidence in the source of the numbers. The stock market prices, unemployment figures, inflation figures, gold and silver prices and all pertinent information originating with or backed by the administration have no basis in reality and are merely propaganda disseminated to the public through the bought off media in order to manipulate attitudes favorable to the bureaucracy’s agenda of world hegemony and total control. Obama and this administration have no scruples when it comes to truth; it lives by the lie… Tell me about the moon landing. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/56 "2014-07-16T03:47:08Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Well, I think even Bush had enough sense not to attack a country that had actual WMDs. Ain’t that just a master class in revisionism?:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/57 "2014-07-16T14:59:24Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Obama used threats to get Syria’s WMD stockpiles/program dismantled (or mostly, anyway). I don’t think a hostile fellow like Assad would go along with that if he wasn’t afraid of Obama’s threats. Putin, not Obama. Obama made some threats, but neither the UN nor Congress nor the UK nor anybody except the French were going to go along with it. Which demonstrates why being popular is different from having an effective foreign policy. North Korea isn’t going to do anything different because Obama is Miss Congeniality in Europe. Putin isn’t going to leave the Crimea alone. ISIS isn’t going to back off in Iraq. Egypt still gets its foreign aid even though they had a military coup. Bahrain still gets weapons and equipment even while they are beating and torturing thousands of dissidents. He got the Nobel Prize for being black and not being Bush. That’s all he can expect in return for being popular, and more than he deserves. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/58 "2014-07-16T15:29:32Z")
Which proves that Obama is so internationally powerful, he doesn’t even need to apply his own threats to get things done. When he wants something done, he makes his lackey Russia do it for him. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/59 "2014-07-16T20:31:05Z")
Doesn’t work in Ukraine, though. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654/60 "2014-07-16T21:30:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Doesn’t work in Ukraine, though. > > Regards, > Shodan Apparently it does. They have a pro-Western government now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-opinion-of-the-usa-under-obama-is-far-far-better-than-it-was-under-bush/689654.md?page=4)