# International reaction to Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248 "2017-02-07T17:36:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/61 "2017-02-10T07:39:11Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > (By the way, the last, though less important than others, thing seems to be that the far right candidate Marine Le Pen would receive Russian support. Does Russia intend to involve itself in all western elections?) They used to do it all the time back when their name was an acronym. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/62 "2017-02-10T08:57:49Z")
Sure, but whatever the idiocy of marxism, it’s silly to blame the old brutes in the Politburo for doing exactly the same as any other sizable country in the 20th century. France directing Roumania — they had a fucking French _Province_ nearby during the 1st Empire ( Illyria ) for no conceivable reason except that Napoleon might want to conquer China one day — Germany Bulgaria, China everywhere in SE Asia, Britain where anyone would listen or take a bribe, and America, Fattest Kid on the Block, stomping over the entire world. It’s not for America to cry foul at Putin’s — very feeble — efforts when they ‘influenced’ the Italian election of 1948 and repeated the feat for a quarter of a century. ---
**Author:** ![YoudNeverGuess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a587f6/32.png) [@YoudNeverGuess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoudNeverGuess)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/63 "2017-02-10T18:21:08Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Oh please. You are just minimizing the whole world here. How small can you make it? I hope I don’t hear you saying anyone else is in a “bubble.” Trump is being opposed on almost everything, and give it some time: It’s only a couple weeks into the adm. It’s already an unholy mess on many many fronts. In your mind it’s mostly immigration issues. I don’t care any more about that than climate; corruption; conflicts of interest; stolen supreme court appointment; russia; tweets, family; tweets, judicial; tweets, economic. This presidents appointments have been so egregious its almost seems to be trolling decent thinking people in this country. OMG. Seems like Fotheringay-Phipps must have missed the small matter of the women’s march and the many solidarity women’s marches worldwide too. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/64 "2017-02-10T21:50:32Z")
> [@YoudNeverGuess](#): > > Seems like Fotheringay-Phipps must have missed the small matter of the women’s march and the many solidarity women’s marches worldwide too. Fact remains more white women voted for Trump, so lets get over the marching. In terms of scale, the muslim ban is small potatoes, significant, symbolic and hateful but it isn’t going to change the lives of 20 million people in the next few months as whatever the hell the new healthcare policy will likely do. Nor does it matter to international relations as much as whatever the hell the Iran policy is, or the North Korean policy or even Putin’s policy in Syria and MENA. To some extent the muslin ban is show biz. Look past it to see the actual direction of travel. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/65 "2017-02-12T22:23:12Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re saying “no” to as I cited a perfectly clear survey. What is perplexing to me is how, in Germany say, 65% of those polled view their Muslim population favorably, yet in a different poll 53% supposedly want to ban “all further migration from mainly Muslim countries”. Apparently they like them, but they don’t want any more of them. This doesn’t make sense, and speaks to a difference of interpretation or some other artifact. When I Google the question, I get lots of links to right-wing garbage sites like Infowars, Breitbart, and the Washington Times, all of them citing the same Chatham House poll. I’m not questioning the integrity of Chatham House, but I’d like to see this inconsistency resolved with more independent evidence. > > Furthermore, IIRC, other surveys have shown that in the UK, Muslims as a group compared to the general population tend to be more law-abiding, more respectful of authority, and to have more faith in government and the justice system. So even if some significant minority of the responders have a negative view of their country’s Muslim population, it seems to derive more from bigotry than from evidence. This is decidedly not the case in France where many Muslims tend to be marginalized and where some have engaged in violent acts, but then, here in North American some white supremacists have engaged in violent acts for no actual discernible reason whatsoever except blind hate. I’m no sure what inconsistency you think exist, or what you’re not getting. There is absolutely nothing problematic (to my mind anyway) about “we like them, but we don’t want more of them.” To take your points in no particular order: 1. I would like some evidence that “Muslims as a group in the UK” are more law abiding than the general population. I’m not aware of crime statistics on Muslims in general, but there is significant overlap between the Muslim and South Asian populations (South Asians in the UK are mostly Muslim, and the Muslims are mostly South Asian). Here’s an interesting link from a Pakistani newspaper indicating that as of the early 2010s, South Asians were \11.5 more likely\ than white English people to commit sex crimes against children. (The newspaper overstates the case, since South Asians are 5% of the UK not 2%, but the statistics are bad enough even after that correction). > **[The legacy of UK's Pakistani Muslim predators | The Express Tribune](https://tribune.com.pk/article/11630/the-legacy-of-rochdales-pakistani-muslim-predators/)** > > Will the British Pakistani community now be targeted for crimes committed by these sexual offenders? I’m sure you’ve heard of the, as Evan Drake puts it, “industrial scale statutory rape gangs” in Rotherham. I had been telling my generally pro-immigration mother and other people about it in tones of outrage for the past year, but until I looked it up I thought it had involved one or two hundred girls, not _fourteen hundred_. It was even worse than I imagined, and the link above suggests it wasn’t a one off fluke. Pakistanis in Britain also have a number of other indices of cultural dysfunction: 55% of them marry their own _first cousins_ for a start, leading to a rate of birth defects many higher than those of native English people. Their rates of married female participartion in the workforce are very low as well. A study found that essentially _none_ of them though homosexuality was moreally acceptable, and that a majority thought defamation of the prophet should be illegal. They are more patriotic than white British people, yes. I don’t think that outweighs some of these other issues. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/66 "2017-02-12T22:33:41Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re saying “no” to as I cited a perfectly clear survey. What is perplexing to me is how, in Germany say, 65% of those polled view their Muslim population favorably, yet in a different poll 53% supposedly want to ban “all further migration from mainly Muslim countries”. Apparently they like them, but they don’t want any more of them. This doesn’t make sense, and speaks to a difference of interpretation or some other artifact. When I Google the question, I get lots of links to right-wing garbage sites like Infowars, Breitbart, and the Washington Times, all of them citing the same Chatham House poll. I’m not questioning the integrity of Chatham House, but I’d like to see this inconsistency resolved with more independent evidence. > > Furthermore, IIRC, other surveys have shown that in the UK, Muslims as a group compared to the general population tend to be more law-abiding, more respectful of authority, and to have more faith in government and the justice system. So even if some significant minority of the responders have a negative view of their country’s Muslim population, it seems to derive more from bigotry than from evidence. This is decidedly not the case in France where many Muslims tend to be marginalized and where some have engaged in violent acts, but then, here in North American some white supremacists have engaged in violent acts for no actual discernible reason whatsoever except blind hate. **Evan Drake** also responds quite smartly to your other points, and I second him 100% in his point about shoe shops, etc… More generally, being law abiding, patriotic, etc., has \nothing to do\ with whether English people should want you to be a permanent resident of their country or not. Most people want to live in a _nation_, not a glorified airport lounge, and for many people that involves (among other things) living in a community dominated demographically by people that share a certain physical phenotype, a certain genetic heritage, and a certain religion and culture. You’ve expressed preferences as to the kind of society you like to live in- a “western democracy”. Well, plenty of other people don’t care about western democracy per se, they want to live in a community made up of mostly a _particular ethnic group_, or in some cases a particular religious group. If your sense of nationhood is tied up with being an ethnic homeland, then you can tolerate a small minority of people of a different ethnic group, but above a certain threshold you simply aren’t an ethnic homeland any more. An England that’s 1% Muslim (or for that matter 1% Hindu) would be a very different society than one which is 5% or even 50% Muslim or Hindu. In that light it makes perfect sense to say “we like them fine, but we don’t want more of them.” At the rate England is heading right now, people of the traditional “English” ethnicity will be less than 50% of the population by 2070 or so. You don’t have to share it but you certainly ought to understand it. All of that needs to be balanced against the fact that there are a lot of Muslim refugees out there and they do need to go somewhere. I think we should try to resettle them in the countries that are best set up to take them, and I think the United States is better set up to do so than most of Europe. It shouldn’t be a surprise thought that Europe is having a major reaction against immigration in general (and Muslim immigration in particular) right now. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/67 "2017-02-13T00:09:00Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s like meeting with a very rich uncle who happens to be a sociopathic lunatic. Trudeau had a very warm friendship with Obama which I’m sure he misses very much. I can only hope Trudeau suggests [building a wall](http://www.cbc.ca/news/refugees-border-security-patrol-rcmp-1.3976536), and having the US pay for it, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/68 "2017-02-13T15:45:44Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I can only hope Trudeau suggests [building a wall](http://www.cbc.ca/news/refugees-border-security-patrol-rcmp-1.3976536), and having the US pay for it, of course. But then the Inupiak have to build a wall and Canada pays for it, it never ENDS ! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/69 "2017-02-13T15:48:01Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > They used to do it all the time back when their name was an acronym. Yes, but then again back then they were straight up about every Communist party out there being riddled with KGB mooks. When the Russians support _fascisti_, I get all confused :mad: ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/70 "2017-02-13T18:44:25Z")
CBC is live-blogging the Trudeau visit today. Seems to be going well, compliments flying in both directions, not sure what if anything is actually being accomplished. Turns out that Trump knew the elder Trudeau. Justin presented him with [a picture of him and his father](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4kGwj5XUAA4xd3.jpg) at the Family of Man award in New York City on Nov. 5, 1981. Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau was given the award for demonstrating an outstanding example of excellence in society. Trump was chairman of the awards dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Annoying\_Buzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Annoying\_Buzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoying_Buzz)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/71 "2017-02-16T01:13:16Z")
Sometimes, you get on your train in the morning, and you realize the person next to you has something very, very wrong with them. Maybe they’re mentally disabled, maybe they’re having a complete breakdown that morning, maybe it’s someone who’s just somehow managed to reach adulthood with no awareness of decorum, personal space, or basic hygiene. And for whatever reason, they’ve noticed you. The train is too packed for you to move away from them, and you can’t get off because you need to get to work on time. So you just try to endure it however you can until you reach your stop, attempt to avoid setting off any violent or disgusting reaction, and hope they just leave you alone. That’s the general feeling in Japan toward the US government right now. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/72 "2017-02-16T08:43:11Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yes, but then again back then they were straight up about every Communist party out there being riddled with KGB mooks. When the Russians support _fascisti_, I get all confused :mad: _Los extremos se juntan…_ extremes join up. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248/73 "2017-02-20T01:19:53Z")
I live in Country X. My friends and the people I know believe Y about President Trump. Therefore, Country X believes Y about President Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/international-reaction-to-trump/779248.md?page=3)