# Internnational Exchange Program or a Scam? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732 "2003-02-08T18:23:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/21 "2003-02-09T02:59:48Z")
$4400, or even $5000 is _NOT_ unreasonably high for a trip to Australia. Not knowing what city she’d be flying from, what city she’d be flying to, the airline(s) being used or the dates she’d be flying, I just checked out prices from Chicago to Melbourne on random dates in February. For United Airlines, a round trip flight ranges from just over $3000 to _ **over $5600** _! On American Airlines, the fare ranges from $4800 to _ **over $6000** _. For Qantas, the fare ranges from $4800 to _ **over $6200** _. And I didn’t check if this includes all those extra taxes and fee that always get stuck on top of the fare. Add in the cost of hotels and whatever activities are included in the trip (museums, tourist attractions or whatever) and it sounds like the girl _is_ getting some kind of deal. Especially if she’s flying during a peak time. Man, the Qantas page takes _forever_ to load… ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/22 "2003-02-09T03:47:05Z")
Feb. is a bit soon to get a good price on a trip like this, but I searched LAX to Sydney leaving June 1st and lasting through the 21st, and airfair and hotel alone were from $3000-$6000. $4400, depending on what else is included, sounds just about right. From [the proteacher board](http://www.proteacher.net/dcforum/gifted/7.html#1) , the contractor is “Ambassadors International”, a publically traded company on the NASDAQ exchange. From Yahoo financials, which I’m not sure I can link to without making you log in to yahoo to follow the link, here is their net profit over the last four quarters: $171,000 $888,000 ($551,000) ($16,768,000) BTW, numbers in () are operating LOSSES. If they are a scam, they are the worst run scam in the history of scams. And Jenster, here’s a quick lesson on ‘pitting’. You ask for opinions about the organization: IMHO You want to rant about an organization: Pit You want to rant about an organization, but disguise it by asking for an opinion, and then yell at everybody who disagrees with you: The mods will make the final decision, but it wouldn’t surprize me if the original thread was kept open if valid opinions were still being offered, and somebody else opened a new thread about you in the pit. -lv ---
**Author:** ![jeanster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@jeanster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeanster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/23 "2003-02-09T03:51:05Z")
I don’t recall yelling at anyone. But I do recall someone doing a borderline flame at me. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/24 "2003-02-09T03:59:38Z")
> [@](#): > > …but based on the meetings I have attended if your boss caved in to the pressure at this meeting, he had better never walk into a used car dealership. Not alone, anyway. It sounds to me, **jeanster** , like your boss made a financial committment that he was, at best, barely able to meet, when he should not have done so. That’s his responsibility. My acquaintance with prior experience with the program are not at all upset with it, and are in fact happy with the reults. If you can’t do it, don’t. Pretty simple. ---
**Author:** ![jeanster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@jeanster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeanster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/25 "2003-02-09T04:02:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ringo \* > \*\*Not alone, anyway. > > It sounds to me, **jeanster** , like your boss made a financial committment that he was, at best, barely able to meet, when he should not have done so. That’s his responsibility. > > My acquaintance with prior experience with the program are not at all upset with it, and are in fact happy with the reults. > > If you can’t do it, don’t. Pretty simple. \*\* An intelligent and courteous rebuttal. Thank you, Ringo. ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/26 "2003-02-09T04:07:41Z")
On further review, you’re right on that point. You’ve been agressively defending your opinion in the face of overwhelming evidence against you, and you seemed to ask for opinions while having no intention of letting those opinions (and any facts that come with them) change you mind, but I don’t think you haven’t crossed any lines yet. I apologize for the insinuation. Would you care to address what part of the ‘scamming’ company’s net operating loss over the last year should be spent on free trips for teenagers? -lv ---
**Author:** ![jeanster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@jeanster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeanster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/27 "2003-02-09T04:15:42Z")
Apology accepted. And I apologize if any of my comments upset anyone. That was not my intention, even if some members think that it was. Perhaps ‘scam’ was the wrong term. I was referring to the questionable method used to get the parents to commit to and sign up for this program. They play on the emotions of the child and parents, so the parents feel like they would be letting down their kid if they don’t sign up. That seems very underhanded to me. Don’t get me wrong. I’m sure it’s a very educational and enriching experience for the child who goes. ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/28 "2003-02-09T04:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeanster \* > \*\*Perhaps ‘scam’ was the wrong term. \*\* Well, that answers that then, they are an International Exchange Program. 😃 Seriously, parents should disappoint their kids at least once a week. “No, you can’t get Grand Theft Auto”. “No, you can’t bring your friends over and drink all my beer.” “No, I will not buy you a car.” **"No, I can’t afford to spend $4000 so you can go on a trip to Australia."** It might be a bit underhanded, but I don’t think they’re doing anything _wrong_. Now, if the letter said that they were given a $5000 scholarship to go on an international exchange trip, and all they had to do was go to a meeting, and THEN discovered that an addition $4000 was required, then I’d say it had ‘scammish’ behavior. Without seeing one of these letters, I can’t comment further on their behavior. Have you seen the letter, or are you just taking you’re friend’s word for it? -lv ---
**Author:** ![jeanster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@jeanster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeanster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/29 "2003-02-09T04:43:01Z")
My coworker in the next cubicle told me she got one of those letters, read it, then threw it away. It was my boss who actually signed up his own kid for it. I’m taking my coworker’s word for it. She’s also been a close friend of mine for over ten years. We’re like sisters. I’m also taking the word of other parents who posted elsewhere on the Internet that they read the letter and decided it didn’t seem right, so they threw it away. Dang, I should have asked my coworker if she could show me a copy of it if she ever gets another one in the mail. ---
**Author:** ![jeanster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@jeanster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeanster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/30 "2003-02-09T04:46:23Z")
My brother-in-law told me years ago that his step-daughter asked him (right after she graduated from high school) if he was going to pay for her trip to Europe. Seems it’s a tradition for kids who graduate from high school to have a vacation in Europe, I guess. His reply, “Are you kidding? I haven’t even been to Europe yet. What makes you think I’m going to pay for YOUR trip to Europe?!” ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/31 "2003-02-09T05:31:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeanster \* > **I’m also taking the word of other parents who posted elsewhere on the Internet that they read the letter and decided it didn’t seem right, so they threw it away.** Any cites besides the teacher’s forum? Googling for such things, I come up with your two links on the ‘negative’ side, and a bunch on the positive. Including the positives in your thread, there’s: [http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg\_id=002aCe](http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002aCe) [http://community.otwa.com/3/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=386293084&f=200299906&m=7712977476](http://community.otwa.com/3/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=386293084&f=200299906&m=7712977476) [This one implies that the cost was less than he was expecting](http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=242528&highlight=people%2Bto%2Bpeople%2BStudent%2BAmbassador) , And then a bunch of threads that now live only on boardreader. General consensus was that every single kid or parent who participated in the trip was happy they did, some parents got turned off when they found out that they had to pay money, others turned off when they found out how much, but it certainly seems like they provide an experience worthy of the price they charge. People who throw the letter away without any research cannot really comment on the quality of the program, only that they thought it “didn’t feel right”. And guess what, [there are scholarships](http://www.ptpi.org/programs/scholarships.jsp) for a certain number of students to go on the trips. -lv ---
**Author:** ![jeanster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@jeanster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeanster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/32 "2003-02-09T05:52:21Z")
Wow. Thanks for doing all that research. That scholarship info will come in handy for those who want to go. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/33 "2003-02-09T05:56:13Z")
I’m sending this to the BBQ Pit with one small note: I don’t see the honesty in telling parents that their child was “chosen” or “recommended” when in truth they were merely victims of a sold-for-profit mailing list. These children are not “ambassadors”-they are customers, plain and simple. ---
**Author:** ![jeanster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@jeanster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeanster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/34 "2003-02-09T06:04:28Z")
Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/35 "2003-02-09T06:48:04Z")
Jeanster, My typing slowly crack was over the line for IMHO. I should not have made that crack. I’m sorry if I upset you. ---
**Author:** ![jeanster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@jeanster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeanster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/36 "2003-02-09T08:23:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rick \* > \*\*Jeanster, > My typing slowly crack was over the line for IMHO. I should not have made that crack. I’m sorry if I upset you. \*\* Thank you, Rick. Apology accepted. And I’m sorry if any of my comments upset you. That was not my intention. Hey, how do you like it here in the BBQ Pit? I thanked the moderator for the smooth move over. Didn’t feel a thing, unlike that earthquake we had in California a few days ago. Thank you again, to that moderator, for my delicious martini (shaken, not stirred) is intact without a drop spilled. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/37 "2003-02-09T13:39:34Z")
I went on a People-to-People trip to China 10 or 12 years ago with a group of actuaries. It was a worthwhile trip. They arranged for us to meet some Chinese insurance executives, along with a mix of sight-seeing. The group I was with included some bright and interesting people. Members of the group came from several countrie. I’m very glad I went. Still, their marketing is obnoxious. It’s true that at bottom they are a travel company. As I travel company, I felt they were honest enough in providing what they said they would. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/38 "2003-02-09T14:25:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeanster \* > \*\*I don’t recall yelling at anyone. But I do recall someone doing a borderline flame at me. \*\* Uh… if you think that was a borderline flame…err…well… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeanster \* > \*\*The scam part is that they make the child and parents think their kid was nominated or selected to be an Ambassador to some foreign country. \*\* How _are_ the kids selected? And how is it worded in the letter to the parents? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/39 "2003-02-09T14:29:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeanster \* > \*\*My coworker in the next cubicle told me she got one of those letters, read it, then threw it away. …I’m also taking the word of other parents who posted elsewhere on the Internet that they read the letter and decided it didn’t seem right, so they threw it away. \*\* Sounds like the problem here is your boss being a pushover, not anything wrong with the company’s practices. ---
**Author:** ![tsarina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@tsarina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsarina)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732/40 "2003-02-09T14:46:42Z")
My best friend went on their Australia/ New Zealand trip when she was fourteen (in 1996). I can’t remember how much her parents paid, but it must have been in the neighborhood of $4000, but I doubt they had any trouble paying it. After she received the letter, I remember that she had to attend a few meetings, be interviewed, and she might have had to write an essay and get letters of recommendation. Fourteen is a little young (I think) to go so far overseas, but she was very mature for her age and I wasn’t surprised when she was picked. While she was there, they really played up the “student ambassador” angle. They had to wear the official shirts everywhere, and she was encouraged to print up cards with her name and address on them (she came home with practically the whole stack - who wants to give them out randomly to strangers?). She ended up having a great time, but I agree that parents shouldn’t feel pressure to send their kids on trips like this. Kids can always get a job and save up for a future trip, and they’ll appreciate it so much more that way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/internnational-exchange-program-or-a-scam/153732.md?page=3)