Well then you might as well say that about anything. How do I know that my “hot” isn’t your “cold”, that my “tired” isn’t your “lonely”, and that my “pain” isn’t your “taste of apples”?
Color mixing (red + green = yellow) isn’t enough for these purposes, since that all occurs in the retina, and we do know that human retinae are the same (at least, for the most part). But “perception” of color is a neural process in the brain, and we don’t know how that occurs exactly.
You might also try to test it by asking people which colors go together. If I have different perception of color than FairDink, then we’re likely to disagree about what colors look good together. But this would be extremely difficult to control for: How do we know that one of us doesn’t just have lousy fashion sense?
The comparison might very well apply to the first two examples, though I’m inclined to point out the tangent of the case of the reflex loop. The spinal bypass nerve impulse to pull your hand away from an extremely cold or extremely hot object isn’t processed by your brain into the sensations of “hot” or “cold”, it is more like a vague “Danger, Will Robinson! Potential tissue damage!” After you’ve already pulled away from the object, the impulses from the nerves of the hand eventually travel the sensory path and register in your brain as “hot” or “cold”.
Your third example doesn’t fly though…taste requires mouth and nose, and pain is experienced elsewhere.
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… then we’re likely to disagree about what colors look good together.
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This is a good argument. Somebody has brought this to my attention in the past (co-incedentatly, it was a girl 
- no harm intended, just a sexist joke that has no place here).
It is a difficult thing to measure. On the one hand you have Cleo presenting a ‘worst dressed’ segment in theire mag, and on the other you have the poor victims that either did it for attention or simply did not see any error in theire ways. This alone, however, does not convince me of either. I am slowly mulling to the idea of it being a matter of conditioning. I have thought about this and I can present, i guess, one ‘development-path’ here.
Remember I presented the possibility of an ‘evolving’ framework? That being said, another way to look at it is, perhaps, as we see ‘things’ around us, ‘together’ - at a very young age say - we ‘evolve’ our colour scheme based on this. In other words, the colour begins to take shape as we see the world. So if things ‘go together’ the differences would be such that they do not ‘irritate’ the brain.
I would like to emphasise that I believe the brain is more concerned with differences rather that similarities. My assumption - and that is all it is - is that the necessary differences of interpretation of colours are pre-programed (natural-selection), but the actual blanket, well, thats left up to the individual to develop and may actually be linked to their cultural backround rather than genetics.
… and yes, this priciple could be applied to many other aspects of the brain. For me though, it is the colour which is of interest, probably, and only, due to the fact hat it seems impossible to be able to tell. It is easier for me to just accept taste etc as being different for everyone, sight though, well… here we are.
I realize it may seem like i’m just trying to continue something that will probably go nowhere, but I have already seen some great input that has helped refine what I already beleive. On a personal basis, this is good for me, I just hope other people may find interesting points here to ponder on for themselves. My intention is not to stir (not in this thread anyway), but to hear something I haven’t thought of (such as the 7 ‘eyed’ robot), and maybe, just maybe, broaden other peoples and my own point of view on this matter (for no particular reason really).
Oh, that’d be easy. Just make sure your test subjects are all gay men!
Jeesh! Don’t you watch that new TV show?!?!??!?! 
Hmmm… I’ve heard of a certain pill that makes tents and causes everything to look blueish… 
Actually, i’m trying to focus my point of view. It is my input channels which i’m trying to broaden.
Some interesting ideas from Mr. Kant.
I do tend to think that philosophers aren’t the best people to consult in this matter; no doubt the world looks very different to such characters
really neuroscientists and interior designers would have more pertinent things to say.
A line of enquiry that suggested itself to me was synaesthesia; the crossover of sensations within the brain from one sense to another, so that you can sometimes ‘hear’ or ‘taste’ or ‘smell’ colours and vice versa.
However a little sampling of various people’s experiences of
synaesthesia tends to support the idea that we are all wired up differently inside after all…
Hearing Colors, Tasting Shapes
Also, I’m not convinced that color-matching is an intrinsic property of your perception of the colors themselves. Maybe it’s influenced by something natural. Maybe green and brown go together (or don’t go together) because trees are those colors.
Thats a good point. I think you are probably right. Things that may meen ‘food’ or ‘shelter’ must be deeply engrained in our sub-conscious. They must look good/bad from an instincutual point of view.
I have been waiting for someone to bring up the white & black (and, i guess, grey) issue. It is the last part of my, well… dilema, and for me, it may actually hold part of the answer. It is hard for me to put into words, but i’ll try anything once :dubious:.
I’ll start with ‘what is black?’
I guess the best way to describe black, would be zero, or no reaction. Looking at a black surface still producess a nurological reaction, as is required by my original OP. But lets assume black is like looking into space (no stars - no photons). Therefore black is zero, nothing, nada. Is black then an exception to the rule that I have presented above? Perhaps we all see the same black? None-the-less, the principle could probably still be applied.
Now here is the kina strange part. What is white? From my own perspective I can tell you that white appears different from all the other colours in that it is prety much NOT really a colour. It is plain and has no real ‘flavour’ - for lack of a better word. So what is white? From a physical point of view, it is the exact opposite of black (limiting the frequencies to what the human eye can see of course).
So really, that is all the brain needs to know about ‘white’. It does not need any other information except that it is the ‘opposite’ of black. Hence the brain has not developed any ‘flavour’ to it. I mean to me, it seems almost incredible that putting all the colours together produces white! Ever since I was a kid I could not comprehend this seeming ly strange phenomenon.
It is hard to imagine, i know. But try an think of it as two sides of a surface, the only ‘property’ that separates them is ‘opposite’ - the opposite of NONE is ALL. It gets pretty deep, but its worth thinking about.
From my perspective, and taking into account the idea that the brain likes to know differences, it is almost proof that we see different colours. In other words, the colours we see are a ‘pattern signature’ the brain has given a frequency or object so it can be destiguished from any other colour - beween NONE and ALL - where there can be varrying degrees of that pattern (shades). And, of course, like music, there are the ‘harmonics’ (which are physical properties - not neurological ones). The different points of the harmonics are represented by ‘bigger differences’, it is up to the brain to figure out what those differences are - according to his/her experiences… Perhaps.
Phylosophical mumbo-jumbo, I know :smack:.
I have read many things regarding this. You can even conciously do this - to some extent. Its almost like all the brain needs is to be able to ‘recognize’ something, and then be able to either hear, see, smell, or feel, it almost doesn’t matter (I don’t know about touch though - in the same way that you can’t fire-up rods in your eye).
This is a question which appears to occur to a lot of people while they are children, though they cannot express it so masterfully as in the OP. I know I thought of it, as did some of my friends with whom I discussed this later in life.
My WAG is that since the same mechanism are acting to the same stimulus in everyone, the perceptions are pretty near the same. I say “pretty near” because most of the common forms of color blindness involve misidentifying certain shades of color which are “on the border” with another color.
Though I’m not sure, it also seems to me that it might be relevant to me that the psychology of color is the same for pretty much everyone. For instance, the three primary colors whien mixing pigment are red, yellow and blue. The compliment to a primary color is the secondary color formed by mixing the other two primaries. For instance, if a painter wishes to make a blue seem more vivid and intense, he juxtaposes it with orange. Then again, this may just be a purely mechanical function of wavelength; for all I know, when I look at orange against blue and find both of the colors especially intense, maybe somebody else is seeing particularly intense examples of, say, mint green and pink.
Julian Jaynes, the psychologist who wroteThe Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Brain has said that one day as a boy he was admiring some yellow blossoms when it occured to him that though pretty well everyone knows to call what they see when looking at such flowers “yellow”, another person might, in fact, be seeing some entirely different color.
What it comes down to, in the end, is that personal experience is, at some level, ineffable. And in some unavoidable sense we are, ultimately, each of us alone.
Oops: left out a part. Jaynes said that this experience was the defining moment of his life, and led him to become a psychologist, and to concentrate on studying consciousness.:smack:
To the OP;
You may find colorblindness interesting. I am red/green blue/purple colorblind. I can see the colors when they are standing alone, exempting certain shades and certain lighting conditions. When you put shades that are similiar near eachother however I may not be able to tell the difference.
The biggest example is that if I take a green crayon and use a flashling to make it barely lighted, the crayon may appear red to me. Apply more light, and magically it changes to green. By leaving the crayon ‘mediumly’ lighted, I can contract and expand my pupils to change the color from red to green.
I find it intriguing how my mind will unabashedly lie to ‘me’ =)
alterego, I would like to ask you a question if I may:
If, say, the two crayons had completely different labels on them, and you knew (from much use of the crayons, say) that they were different colours. Would it be easier to tell the differnce between them as opposed to them having the same label?
(supposing they were similar in shade - and they were not unfamiliar).
slipster I agree with you that we must have a ‘similar’ outlook on the world, especially when we are young. It would be interesting to hear from a pair of identical twins (who grew up together) to see if they have similar tastes in colour.
I promise I will not judge your fashion sense.
FairDink, not really. Whether or not the label says its red/green has no effect on what I see. The issue is that I am missing cones in my eyes that allow me to distinguish color. My mind is making up for this lacking by doing its best to replace the color with something else.
I’ve long wondered if it would be possible for me to train myself to recognize the colors that i technically cant see.
I find it facinating that my cousin is able to see indicators on red cars. He won’t ‘see’ them but his brain will ‘place’ them, fairly acurately, on the car. If he thinks about it, it becomes much harder to see though - which is in agreement with the Hearing Colors, Tasting Shapes report [above].
My grandfather is colour blind as well (on my mothers side - my cousin is on my fathers side) and for a long time my parents suspected me of having it. I have never identified anything that would suggest that I am colour blind, but I have always been aware of it and wondering how it all works. In my grandfathers case, it is almost un-noticeable now (he is also fairly un-cooperative and proud though), but I would be interested to hear your experience over time.
alterego I intended the above question for you (or any other colour-blind individual out there).
I don’t believe my cousin sees the same orange that I do for indicators, but his mind has developed some kind of ‘difference’ between orange and red. Also, he knows that this is the same colour as a caution flash-light (through experience I presume), but won’t be able to tell if there is any difference in shade between the two colours (but he is also exremely aware of his inability to tell so there is some ‘concious noise’ that seems to get in the way - ie ‘I don’t know’ as opposed to a straight out ‘No’ or ‘Yes’).