# Into the Woods: Have You Seen It? (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 30, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540 "2014-12-30T15:36:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/21 "2014-12-30T21:27:15Z")
Do you see gore when the stepsisters try on the slippers? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/22 "2014-12-30T21:33:25Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Do you see gore when the stepsisters try on the slippers? They frame it out of view. You hear the stepsisters scream but don’t see the toes or heels coming off. They had a trickle of blood coming off the slipper that betrayed the trickery to the prince. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/23 "2014-12-30T21:34:48Z")
I’m still waiting to see a review that wonders why Sondheim had to change the nice fairy tales to make them so awful and bloody and sad… ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/24 "2014-12-30T23:35:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m still waiting to see a review that wonders why Sondheim had to change the nice fairy tales to make them so awful and bloody and sad… Sounds like my ex, who saw the original production with me. He said he wished he’d left after the first act. Totally missed the point of “Be careful what you wish for.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/25 "2014-12-30T23:59:06Z")
You guys are going on about Rapunzel, but the lack of the narrator is just something that almost slipped your mind?! The death of the narrator is what sets up the Act2. It’s far more important than whether Rapunzel dies or not. As in, thanks for the info, I will not be seeing this failed adaptation and will insist that my sister watch the play on Netflix. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/26 "2014-12-31T00:16:10Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > …I would disagree with **jayjay** ’s comment on the Wolf’s “sexual predator vibe.” Because Red Riding Hood is so much younger in the film than she generally is on stage, it struck me as vastly _more_ creepy… Agreed, especially since she still sings about how she was a little bit excited by the whole thing. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/27 "2014-12-31T05:01:22Z")
Saw it tonight. I thought The Wolf was so neutered he was gelded. The only reason I took anything sexual from it was that I _have_ seen the stage show and devoured Bettelheim in college. The sea of little girls around me missed it entirely: they all took it very literally as The Wolf wanted to _eat_ Little Red, for dinner (or maybe dessert). Afterward, discussion with my 9 year old confirmed this. She didn’t see a drop of sexual innuendo in the scene, and was frankly a little scornful of we adults for making a big deal about it. So kudos to Disney for hitting the right notes, not creeping out the children but making the adults squirm. Desperately missed the Narrator/Mysterious Man/Father. Rapunzel’s ride into the sunset was a horrible choice - it turns “Witch’s Lament” into the sour grapes of a bitter controlling woman still stuck on being disobeyed, instead of a heartbroken mother grieving the death of her daughter. Which wouldn’t be so bad except that it means The Witch stays one note Evil throughout, making “Children Will Listen” completely out of character. Overall, that’s my biggest gripe - the loss of any shades of grey. Sure, The Baker sings, “Witches can be right…giants can be good…” but when does The Witch earn our benefit of that doubt that she might be right, or the Giant good? We completely lose that because they remain unrelatable, unlikeable antagonists throughout. I agree that the first act dragged while the second act was rushed, and it made the whole thing awkward. But more, than that, I missed the (thematically critical) pause of “Once Upon A Time…Later”. This is the point at which all have gotten their wishes, and they realize that…maybe wishes aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. Not because giants are tromping through their land, but because what happens after happily ever after? The house is too small, the days are too long without a festival, the real world seems dull after you’ve seen the sky… That number provides a critical moment of reflection and the potential for growth when the characters face the challenges of Act II. Leaving it out leaves out, again, the shades of grey - the moment when we have everything we thought we wanted, but we still want more. Without it, we have fairy tale characters rushing into fairy tale action in Act II, not developing as human beings facing human trials of loyalty, love and resourcefulness. All that being said: I was pleasantly surprised by the singing. A very good job done by all, particularly Streep and Daniel Huttlestone (Jack). The music was beautiful. Just wish more of the harmony/polyphony stuff had stayed in. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/28 "2014-12-31T14:34:28Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > …But more, than that, I missed the (thematically critical) pause of “Once Upon A Time…Later”. This is the point at which all have gotten their wishes, and they realize that…maybe wishes aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. Not because giants are tromping through their land, but because what happens after happily ever after? The house is too small, the days are too long without a festival, the real world seems dull after you’ve seen the sky… That number provides a critical moment of reflection and the potential for growth when the characters face the challenges of Act II. Leaving it out leaves out, again, the shades of grey - the moment when we have everything we thought we wanted, but we still want more. Without it, we have fairy tale characters rushing into fairy tale action in Act II, not developing as human beings facing human trials of loyalty, love and resourcefulness… Beautiful analysis, beautifully expressed. Re this: \*"…and was frankly a little scornful of \*\*we \*_adults…"_ Should be “scornful of **us** adults.” ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/29 "2014-12-31T14:39:12Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Beautiful analysis, beautifully expressed. > > Re this: > \*"…and was frankly a little scornful of \*\*we \*_adults…"_ > Should be “scornful of **us** adults.” I’ll make sure to fire the editor. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/30 "2014-12-31T14:50:54Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Beautiful analysis, beautifully expressed. > > Re this: > \*"…and was frankly a little scornful of \*\*we \*_adults…"_ > Should be “scornful of **us** adults.” I thought he meant “ **wee** adults”. (Little People have always been the first to leap to conclusions about Sondheimian innuendo.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/31 "2014-12-31T14:53:09Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] I’m still waiting to see a review that wonders why Sondheim had to change the nice fairy tales to make them so awful and bloody and sad… [/QUOTE] The last time I saw this on stage Seth MacFarlane’s _Million Ways to Die in the West_ was in theaters and I heard a guy behind me remark “That went south sooo fast!” when the deaths began in Act 2. I’ll admit I chuckled. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/32 "2014-12-31T15:17:27Z")
Another interesting artifact of the de-aging of the Red and Jack actors is that we lose a lot of the depth of the Giantess’s wanting to find Jack. If you listen to Jack’s song after he first comes back from the beanstalk, he describes his encounter with the Giantess. The exact same lyrics from a teenage Jack would have set the significance of that a lot more clearly. The Giantess wasn’t looking for Jack just for revenge for her husband’s death. She was also feeling angry at her betrayal by a(n absurd) lover and feeling guilty that she succumbed to that temptation and it led to her husband’s death. Although there’s nothing explicit in the musical/movie to lead in this direction, the Giantess is actually a sympathetic figure if you think about it. She and the Giant are living their lives quietly in their cloud-kingdom when suddenly this human invades their home, seduces her, steals money, livestock and valuables, and kills her husband. There’s more than an iota of justification for what she does in Act II, really. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/33 "2014-12-31T15:28:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I… will insist that my sister watch the play on Netflix. I saw the play on TV when it was broadcast eons ago. (Bernadette Peters, right?) Loved it. I’d like to se the film, but the SO isn’t interested. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/34 "2014-12-31T15:33:12Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Although there’s nothing explicit in the musical/movie to lead in this direction, the Giantess is actually a sympathetic figure if you think about it. She and the Giant are living their lives quietly in their cloud-kingdom when suddenly this human invades their home, seduces her, steals money, livestock and valuables, and kills her husband. There’s more than an iota of justification for what she does in Act II, really. [/QUOTE] Oh completely. I always wondered if that was the inspiration for the Agnes Moorhead episode of _Twilight Zone_ about the old lady fighting off the tiny “aliens”. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/35 "2014-12-31T15:37:33Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I thought he meant “ **wee** adults”. (Little People have always been the first to leap to conclusions about **Sondheimian innuendo**.) Damn! Now I want to change my screen name to **Sondheimian Innuendo**. Question: Should I watch the Bernadette Peters version before I see the new movie? Or the other way around? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/36 "2014-12-31T16:09:56Z")
[QUOTE=ThelmaLou] Question: Should I watch the Bernadette Peters version before I see the new movie? Or the other way around? [/QUOTE] I haven’t seen the movie yet (I plan to see it tonight), but I would if you have time. It sounds like knowing some of the cut stories might make a couple of scenes more poignant. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/37 "2014-12-31T16:24:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Another interesting artifact of the de-aging of the Red and Jack actors is that we lose a lot of the depth of the Giantess’s wanting to find Jack. If you listen to Jack’s song after he first comes back from the beanstalk, he describes his encounter with the Giantess. The exact same lyrics from a teenage Jack would have set the significance of that a lot more clearly. The Giantess wasn’t looking for Jack just for revenge for her husband’s death. She was also feeling angry at her betrayal by a(n absurd) lover and feeling guilty that she succumbed to that temptation and it led to her husband’s death. > > Although there’s nothing explicit in the musical/movie to lead in this direction, the Giantess is actually a sympathetic figure if you think about it. She and the Giant are living their lives quietly in their cloud-kingdom when suddenly this human invades their home, seduces her, steals money, livestock and valuables, and kills her husband. There’s more than an iota of justification for what she does in Act II, really. Although the kid who played Jack is actually 15. Sure doesn’t look (or sound) like it though, so your point stands. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I haven’t seen the movie yet (I plan to see it tonight), but I would if you have time. It sounds like knowing some of the cut stories might make a couple of scenes more poignant. If you want to like the movie, I’d hold off on the American Playhouse version. If you want to know what you’re missing, you’re totally right. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/38 "2014-12-31T16:38:52Z")
I wouldn’t go that far. I’ve seen that AP version, and I still like the movie. It’s what it is. A different medium, with a slightly different audience and the limitations of being produced by a giant entertainment conglomerate rather than some deep-pockets NYC angels. Film always lags behind Broadway…I’m half-convinced that it took a quarter-century to get Les Miz to the screen because “Master of the House” has the lyric “shit” in it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/39 "2014-12-31T16:55:31Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] I’m half-convinced that it took a quarter-century to get Les Miz to the screen because “Master of the House” has the lyric “shit” in it. [/QUOTE] Would that they had waited longer and done it right. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540/40 "2014-12-31T17:01:33Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Would that they had waited longer and done it right. Eh. I liked it. I could have lived much more comfortably without Russell Crowe doing a poor imitation of Rex Reed trying to croak out Javert’s songs, though. And the song composed to grab the brass statue kind of sucked. Otherwise… Oh, and Cosette the limp rag. But that’s baked in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/into-the-woods-have-you-seen-it-open-spoilers/708540.md?page=3)