# Intolerant bitch sues college because tolerance is intolerant **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413 "2006-04-12T18:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/21 "2006-04-12T20:50:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In fairness, that’s only on Bukkake Thursday. Not on Tuesday, which is your day in the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/22 "2006-04-12T20:51:13Z")
> [@Fat Chance](#): > > And now I see that a bunch of people already said that (about the choice thing). My bad. It doesn’t matter. I’m sure other people have explained it to her before. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/23 "2006-04-12T20:53:04Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > To not like someone for the color they where born is wrong. (IMO) it is also wrong to not like someone for a lifestyle choice they made as long as it doesn’t adversely effect my life. Which homosexuality does not, but to equate the two (racism and disliking homosexuality) cannot be done, because one is a choice and the other is genetic. > > And before anyone goes off on me, I researched this prior and unless something has changed, they have not found a “gene” that says gay. Now if that where to change then you can compare the two and group them in the same category. But until then it does not make sense. Although you can, like me, despise both groups equally. (both racists and homophobes) You’re right that it’s irrelevant whether it’s a choice or not, but you haven’t brought any evidence for the bizarre assertion that being gay is volitional, so that portion of your argument is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/24 "2006-04-12T20:53:27Z")
> [@Fat Chance](#): > > How old were you when you “decided” to be straight, rather then gay? When I started Catholic school in 2nd grade and got a look at the girls’ uniforms. 🙂 -Joe, pervert ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/25 "2006-04-12T20:53:56Z")
> [@Kaboom](#): > > Do you really believe that people choose to be homosexual? I don’t think theres absolutely anything wrong with it but im just baffled by the thought that anyone could think people would consciously choose something that would bring them nothing but trouble. If it was a choice there would be no homosexuals. No I do not believe it is a choice, but I do not actually believe you are born into it. I believe it could be something in how you where raised, that’s possible I suppose. But to just say “You where born like that” has no scientific standings as of yet. Eventually it may change. I was simply pointing out the error in lumping racists and homophobes into the same batch. (Even though in my own experience a lot of them are one and the same, they are both racist and homophobic) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/26 "2006-04-12T20:59:40Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > I believe it could be something in how you where raised, that’s possible I suppose. But to just say “You where born like that” has no scientific standings as of yet. There have been many threads on this board discussing the evidence that homosexuality has both genetic and environmental components. I think it’s oversimplification, if not a flat-out mistake, to boil the latter of those down to “something in how you were raised.” Search for some of those. > [@](#): > > I was simply pointing out the error in lumping racists and homophobes into the same batch. You haven’t done it yet. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/27 "2006-04-12T21:00:09Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > You’re right that it’s irrelevant whether it’s a choice or not, but you haven’t brought any evidence for the bizarre assertion that being gay is volitional, so that portion of your argument is nonsense. I needed to look up volitional but I will try to go from what I assume you mean. And it’s simple, if there is no “gene” then you are not born that way. If there is a gene you are. Pretty simple. There is no known gene that says homosexual, so erm where is the nonsense? Though I agree that there not being a gene hurts in some of the arguments against homophobes, it shouldn’t. If today my son said check out the ass on that man, I may get shocked, and probably say “Yeah he must work out” I wouldn’t care. If it is a gene I wouldn’t care, if it was a choice I wouldn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/28 "2006-04-12T21:01:44Z")
If you think it’s either “genes or choice,” your research wasn’t very good. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/29 "2006-04-12T21:09:16Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > …because one is a choice and the other is genetic. > > And before anyone goes off on me, I researched this prior and unless something has changed, they have not found a “gene” that says gay… The nuns at my Dad’s Catholic school might have thought otherwise, but virtually no one today would claim that behavioral laterality, a.k.a. “handedness” is a chosen trait; yet there is no definite genetic link, such that we could point to a gene or genes, and say “left-/right-/ambidextrous-handed”. There were some claims a while ago that genes involved in body axis development (such as _pitx2_ and _lefty_) might have something to do with this, but those hypotheses have lacked any strong evidential support. Other studies implicate sex hormones, gonadotropins, even leptin. AFAIK, there’s no clear answer except that laterality is probably a complex, polygenic trait with likely non-genetic prenatal developmental factors contributing. A lot like sexual preference. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/30 "2006-04-12T21:12:14Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > It’s not “fair” to compare homosexuality and race if only because homosexuality can be hidden, and color can never be hidden. You’ve never heard of people “passing” for white? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/31 "2006-04-12T21:12:29Z")
> [@gooftroopag](#): > > Even more frightening is that she could win … And if she were suing to overturn an actual ban on “hate speech,” she bloody well ought to win. But not on the grounds of religious freedom, rather on the grounds of free speech. “Hate speech” codes are odious monstrosities and I loathe them, and if she were suing to strike it down as an infringement of her right to free speech I would be on her side, despite her being a nasty little creep. But she’s claiming that it’s a religious freedom issue and that’s bullshit. But the rub is that it appears there is no such speech code at the school. I wish the Times article specified exactly which section of the code she’s suing to overturn, because a cursory review of the [Code of Conduct](http://www2.gsu.edu/%7Ewwwdos/codeofconduct.html) doesn’t show a section on “hate speech.” It prohibits harassment and discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. If this dumbass thinks that preaching or merely speaking her ill-informed opinion on homosexuality rises to the level of “harassment” or “discrimination” then she’s an idiot. But then we already knew she was an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/32 "2006-04-12T21:12:39Z")
> [@](#): > > She caused another stir with a letter to the gay activists who organized an event known as Coming Out Week in the fall of 2004…The letter referred to the campus gay rights group Pride Alliance as a “sex club … that can’t even manage to be tasteful.”…The letter berated students who come out publicly as gay, saying they subject others on campus to “a constant barrage of homosexuality.” Does this mean she is upset that all those gay guys and lesbian girls are having sex together? Isn’t that what she wanted? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/33 "2006-04-12T21:14:10Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > I needed to look up volitional but I will try to go from what I assume you mean. And it’s simple, if there is no “gene” then you are not born that way. If there is a gene you are. Pretty simple. There is no known gene that says homosexual, so erm where is the nonsense? Though I agree that there not being a gene hurts in some of the arguments against homophobes, it shouldn’t. If today my son said check out the ass on that man, I may get shocked, and probably say “Yeah he must work out” I wouldn’t care. If it is a gene I wouldn’t care, if it was a choice I wouldn’t care. You don’t know much biology, do you? There’s lots of theories about why some people are gay. It certainly doesn’t boil down to a single autosomal dominant “gay gene”, but plenty of genes have been shown to be far more common among gay people than among straight people. Prenatal environment has also been brought up; there’s theories about how that may play a role, since (for instance) if a mother has more than one male child, later ones are more likely to be gay. This is a complex matter and by saying “there’s no gay gene” you’re indicating that you aren’t at all familiar with the biological research in question, because there’s far more to it than just a single gene. Further, asserting that it’s a choice makes no sense - as has already been pointed out, it’s not really a likely choice when growing up to say, “I’m going to substantially limit my ability to find significant others later in life, and subject myself to discrimination, potentially from my own family, besides.” When you’re making an assertion, you have to justify it. Your assertion is one that’s going to be rather tough to justify, as it makes very little sense. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/34 "2006-04-12T21:14:20Z")
Right – so the argument is that gays choose to be gay, and therefore Christians should be allowed to be prejudiced against them. I’ll buy that argument, if they allow us atheists to say that these fundamentalist Christians choose to be bigots – that there isn’t a Christian bigot gene – and therefore it’s permissable for us to hate them for being fundamentalist Christians. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/35 "2006-04-12T21:15:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If you think it’s either “genes or choice,” your research wasn’t very good. No actually it was a report on groups using medical lit to mislead the public for causes. Cannot remember much, it had to do with groups using a early 1990’s scientific paper to claim a “gene” where there was not one actually found. It had nothing to with actually finding the cause or anything else. And the bigger question once again IMHO why should it matter? Do some people need scientific backing to allow them to think something someone does is acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/36 "2006-04-12T21:17:09Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > And the bigger question once again IMHO why should it matter? Do some people need scientific backing to allow them to think something someone does is acceptable? Why did you bring it up, since you’re not actually willing to do the research needed to support your argument? ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/37 "2006-04-12T21:17:58Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Right – so the argument is that gays choose to be gay, and therefore Christians should be allowed to be prejudiced against them. > > I’ll buy that argument, if they allow us atheists to say that these fundamentalist Christians choose to be bigots – that there isn’t a Christian bigot gene – and therefore it’s permissable for us to hate them for being fundamentalist Christians. Where when where when was someone claiming it was okay to be prejudiced against homosexuality??? If you are referring to anything I said, I suggest you re-read my posts. If it was toward someone I missed, then shame on them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/38 "2006-04-12T21:20:36Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > To not like someone for the color they where born is wrong. (IMO) it is also wrong to not like someone for a lifestyle choice they made as long as it doesn’t adversely effect my life. Which homosexuality does not, but to equate the two (racism and disliking homosexuality) cannot be done, because one is a choice and the other is genetic. > > And before anyone goes off on me, I researched this prior and unless something has changed, they have not found a “gene” that says gay. Now if that where to change then you can compare the two and group them in the same category. But until then it does not make sense. Although you can, like me, despise both groups equally. (both racists and homophobes) I actually agree with you, _if_ your only objection to racism is that race is genetically determined and people can’t help being the race they are. While that’s certainly one very good reason to oppose racism, it’s hardly the only one, and it doesn’t quite cover all the reasons racism is bad. As a hypothetical, let’s say genetic science advances to the point where it becomes possible to change one’s race. At that point, race _is_ a choice. Does this mean that racism is now acceptable? Personally, I oppose racism because race is simply not an indicator of behavior, moral character, or intellectual capabilities. On a functional, pragmatic level, race is entirely meaningless, and to pass moral or value judgements on someone because of that factor is asinine. Homosexuality is similarly useless as a predictor of those traits, and so judging people on that basis is similarly asinine. As such, I do not have any problem lumping racists and homophobes together. They’re both idiots who are making moral value judgements on a trait that has no bearing on morality or individual value. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/39 "2006-04-12T21:24:45Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Why did you bring it up, since you’re not actually willing to do the research needed to support your argument? It’s simple, _there is no known homosexual gene_. See how simple that research was? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/40 "2006-04-12T21:27:10Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > It’s simple, _there is no known homosexual gene_. See how simple that research was? It’s simple, eye color is not genetic because there is no single gene that determines eye color. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413.md?page=3)