# Intolerant bitch sues college because tolerance is intolerant **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413 "2006-04-12T18:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/41 "2006-04-12T21:29:20Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > I needed to look up volitional but I will try to go from what I assume you mean. And it’s simple, if there is no “gene” then you are not born that way. Well, that’s simply not true. Here’s an easy analogy for you: if a woman drinks heavily while pregnant, there’s a chance her kid will be born with fetal alcohol syndrome. It’s not genetic; there’s no “fetal alcohol syndrome” gene, but it’s certainly something the kid is born with, and it is in no way a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/42 "2006-04-12T21:30:17Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > Where when where when was someone claiming it was okay to be prejudiced against homosexuality??? If you are referring to anything I said, I suggest you re-read my posts. If it was toward someone I missed, then shame on them. I wasn’t really responding to you, except perhapsd to the extent that you support the sort of stuff that these “Christians” were quoted as saying, e.g.: > [@](#): > > The religious right aims to overturn a broad range of common tolerance programs: diversity training that promotes acceptance of gays and lesbians, speech codes that ban harsh words against homosexuality, anti-discrimination policies that require college clubs to open their membership to all. If it’s their right to be intolerant like that, then others have the right to be intolerant of them. [QUOTE] “The message is, you’re free to worship as you like, but don’t you dare talk about it outside the four walls of your church,” said Stephen Crampton, chief counsel for the American Family Assn. Center for Law and Policy, which represents Christians who feel harassed.[/QUOTE} Is he saying that gays should be free to be gay, as long as they don’t talk about it in public? If so, he’s doing exactly what feels is harrassing to him. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/43 "2006-04-12T21:30:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I actually agree with you, _if_ your only objection to racism is that race is genetically determined and people can’t help being the race they are. While that’s certainly one very good reason to oppose racism, it’s hardly the only one, and it doesn’t quite cover all the reasons racism is bad. As a hypothetical, let’s say genetic science advances to the point where it becomes possible to change one’s race. At that point, race _is_ a choice. Does this mean that racism is now acceptable? > > Personally, I oppose racism because race is simply not an indicator of behavior, moral character, or intellectual capabilities. On a functional, pragmatic level, race is entirely meaningless, and to pass moral or value judgements on someone because of that factor is asinine. Homosexuality is similarly useless as a predictor of those traits, and so judging people on that basis is similarly asinine. As such, I do not have any problem lumping racists and homophobes together. They’re both idiots who are making moral value judgements on a trait that has no bearing on morality or individual value. As I said even if homosexuality is a choice, it doesn’t change the way I feel now, as it shouldn’t. I was simply saying lumping racist’s with homophobes may not be the best option. Both deserve the ire, but lumping them (racists and homophobes) together is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/44 "2006-04-12T21:30:58Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > It’s simple, _there is no known homosexual gene_. See how simple that research was? It’s clever of you to take this approach. I explained many of the problems with your idea, and then you repeated the idea without actually even looking at what I said! Did I use a big word you didn’t know again or something? Or do you just think that if you pretend not to see the arguments I made, no one else will notice? ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/45 "2006-04-12T21:34:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, that’s simply not true. Here’s an easy analogy for you: if a woman drinks heavily while pregnant, there’s a chance her kid will be born with fetal alcohol syndrome. It’s not genetic; there’s no “fetal alcohol syndrome” gene, but it’s certainly something the kid is born with, and it is in no way a choice. See I would like to believe that, but something stops me. It’s the (I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS) “cured” homosexuals that supposedly lived for decades “normal” You cannot cure something that is ingrained in us could we? I cannot be sent away and my blue eyes turn brown. But damn-it I am not arguing with anyone on this, I will just bow out and say “Yes it is most certainly no way in hell a choice, you all are right” because this is not an argument I am willing to fight about. No matter if it is choice or gene, prejudice is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Flyhalf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ea5d25/32.png) [@Flyhalf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyhalf)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/46 "2006-04-12T21:39:12Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > It’s simple, _there is no known homosexual gene_. See how simple that research was? Are you reading and COMPREHENDING what others are saying? I believe that you see the words, it’s just not apparent (yet) that you understand what they mean. I’m really not trying to be an ass, it’s just that I have a problem with people saying the same fucking things over and over. Sorry for continuing the hijack… ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/47 "2006-04-12T21:41:56Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > It’s clever of you to take this approach. I explained many of the problems with your idea, and then you repeated the idea without actually even looking at what I said! Did I use a big word you didn’t know again or something? Or do you just think that if you pretend not to see the arguments I made, no one else will notice? To be honest I was overwhelmed I missed your post. Please accept my apologies. You’re right I am sorry I was wrong, what you believe is established scientific **fact** there is no theory/guesswork involved that could be incorrect. So that automatically makes my assumptions incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/48 "2006-04-12T21:44:17Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > See I would like to believe that, but something stops me. It’s the (I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS) “cured” homosexuals that supposedly lived for decades “normal” That’s not the point of my analogy. What I’m saying is that you’re creating a false dichotomy between choice and genetics. Something can not be genetic, and still not be a choice. The fact that something is not genetic does not automatically mean that it is a choice. There’s no end of other factors entirely outside of our control that can shape who we are as a person. > [@](#): > > As I said even if homosexuality is a choice, it doesn’t change the way I feel now, as it shouldn’t. I was simply saying lumping racist’s with homophobes may not be the best option. Both deserve the ire, but lumping them (racists and homophobes) together is incorrect. Okay, but if you’re going to make that argument, you need a better reason than, “one’s genetic and the other isn’t.” My objection to racism isn’t founded on genetics, so that argument doesn’t mean anything to me. Give the foundation for my opposition to racism as outlined in my previous post, can you give me a reason to differentiate between racists and homophobes? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/49 "2006-04-12T21:45:55Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > It’s clever of you to take this approach. Ehhhh… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/50 "2006-04-12T21:48:16Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > It’s simple, _there is no known homosexual gene_. See how simple that research was? There is no one gene for alcoholism, so being alcoholic is a choice? There is no one gene for intelligence, but people don’t choose their IQs. Besides that, even if it were a choice, I don’t get why it is proper to try to limit its expression. I bet there are lots of clubs consisting of people who do choose an affinity - shouid they be shut down because some putz objects? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/51 "2006-04-12T21:54:02Z")
Can we just pretend like **Abbie** isn’t here, skip round 437 of “choice or not not a choice” and get back to calling this Georgia Tech twit a twit? Because clearly, the concept that sexual orientation is the result of a complex series of interactions between any number of as yet unknown factors is well beyond **Abbie** ’s ability to comprehend, and continuing to discuss it is a classic example of “Teaching the pig to sing syndrome.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/52 "2006-04-12T21:58:11Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > See I would like to believe that, but something stops me. It’s the (I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS) “cured” homosexuals that supposedly lived for decades “normal” > You cannot cure something that is ingrained in us could we? I cannot be sent away and my blue eyes turn brown. Most people would say these people are not “cured”. They’re either lying to themselves (most end up “relapsing”) or else they were bisexual to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/53 "2006-04-12T21:59:35Z")
I do have to wonder about the issue of charters and funding, and how that might clash with Constitutional protections of free speech and religious practice. If an institution chose to deny a conservative Christian club funding because it issued hate speech, could that institution risk losing Federal funding, à la the banning of ROTC on some campuses? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/54 "2006-04-12T22:17:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Most people would say these people are not “cured”. They’re either lying to themselves (most end up “relapsing”) or else they were bisexual to begin with. Exactly true. As in the example of handedness. You could train, cajole, and abuse someone into using their opposite hand, but that would not turn a right hander into a left hander, it would just make them a clumsy imitation of one. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/55 "2006-04-12T22:18:59Z")
Moreover, race is a very genetically complex thing as well. In many ways, “race” has no biological meaning. By the way, I aways see sexuality on a continuum - and most people live at one end or the other. But for lots of people, they live in the middle. For those people there is an element of choice in the matter. I’ve always suspected that cured homosexuals are bisexuals with a stronger preference for their own sex rather than the opposite sex, but unlike people who are completely straight or completely gay, they can find fullfillment with and be attracted to the opposite sex. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/56 "2006-04-12T22:20:26Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > To be honest I was overwhelmed I missed your post. Please accept my apologies. You’re right I am sorry I was wrong, what you believe is established scientific **fact** there is no theory/guesswork involved that could be incorrect. So that automatically makes my assumptions incorrect. One thing I’ve noticed is how the dumber people on the boards tend to lose their ability to write comprehensible sentences when they’re upset. Look. You brought it up. You clearly don’t know the first thing about the issue. The bottom line is that whatever causes people to be gay is complicated, and we don’t know the first thing about it. It appears to be a complex interaction between geens and environment; there are very definite and well-established links between certain genetic traits and homosexuality; it’s shown that if one identical twin is gay then the other is likely to be gay as well - though not certain, which shows that genetics is not the only issue in question. It’s clear from research that there _is_ a connection between one’s genetic makeup and their sexual orientation. Further, your assertion that either there must be one single gene or else a choice is simply stupid, as has been explained over and over. I’m sorry you don’t know anything about this subject, and I’m sorry you feel some ideological imperative to claim something that you simply can’t demonstrate. But don’t get snarky at me when all I’ve done is point out that you don’t know the first thing about what you’re talking about on the subject. No one knows the answers here; there is no “scientific fact” and when you claimed I was presenting what I said as “scientific fact”, you made yourself a liar. Stop acting like a martyr and either apologize for talking about something you don’t know the first thing about or else do the damn research and come back with some facts to support your claims. It’s a simple choice. Either come back with some research and information, or stop whining that no one believes you. I know you don’t seem to understand this, but the rest of us are not obligated to agree with you just because you say something, and if you can’t come up with anything believable to support your claims, don’t be surprised when no one believes you. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/57 "2006-04-12T22:20:50Z")
> [@Abbie Normal](#): > > it is simply at this point in time it has to be seen as a choice until science can come to an understanding on why it’s not. Or you could fucking use your fucking common fucking sense and fucking pay fucking attention to the fucking homosexuals who fucking report their firsthand fucking experience with their own fucking homosexuality instead of fucking trying to fucking hide your fucking prejudices behind bullshit fucking illogic, you fucking idiot fuckwit fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/58 "2006-04-12T22:24:19Z")
Tell us how you really feel, **Cervaise** 😛 ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/59 "2006-04-12T22:40:05Z")
> [@Fat Chance](#): > > How old were you when you “decided” to be straight, rather then gay? Hm, I chose to be _percieved_ as straight when I married my first husband, and again when I married mrAru. I am tecnically bi since I have had consensual homosexual encounters as well as consensual heterosexual encounters. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413/60 "2006-04-12T22:40:48Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I do have to wonder about the issue of charters and funding, and how that might clash with Constitutional protections of free speech and religious practice. If an institution chose to deny a conservative Christian club funding because it issued hate speech, could that institution risk losing Federal funding, à la the banning of ROTC on some campuses? I’m not aware of campuses banning ROTC, but a number of campuses banned military recruiters from the grounds because of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” law. The Solomon Amendment allowed the Secretary of Defense to pull federal funding from schools that barred such recruiters. The Supreme COurt recently [upheld](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/06/politics/06cnd-scotus.html?ex=1299301200&en=cca03a1f2ca47484&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss) the Solomon Amendment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intolerant-bitch-sues-college-because-tolerance-is-intolerant/352413.md?page=4)