# Introducing SteamOS **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530 "2013-09-23T18:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/61 "2013-09-26T20:46:51Z")
Direct X and Open GL are pretty thin wrappers over the driver interface anyway, I doubt there’s any significant benefit (and probably quite a few detriments) to getting rid of them. (Or not using a similarly low level wrapper like the PS3 or Wii do) ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/62 "2013-09-26T21:56:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I don’t think spoolers and all that random nonsense running in the background of windows really matter, not more than like 5% at most in performance, it’s way overblown. Bypassing directx and using a direct to gpu sort of language may offer significantly increased performance if it’s coded for. What would really give SteamOS a boost is a low overhead software emulator/translator/whatever that lets it run windows games on Linux. That’d be a pretty big game changer. I don’t know that will happen. I think future games will work, I think some modern games might be ported. But I think for the majority of your current Steam livrary, streaming to a SteamOS box is the only way to play those games. Again, I’m almost certain dual booting will be an easy option for people like me, who needs windows, period, but wouldn’t be opposed to also having SteamOS in there as well, even on my main PC, not just my HTPC, if only for performance reasons. They need to make it as easy as hit x+y key and switch though. Modern OS’s on an SSD drive load super fast, and so should a streamlined OS like SteamOs, but I’d definitely want to be less involved than needing to restart. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/63 "2013-09-26T22:00:07Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Direct X and Open GL are pretty thin wrappers over the driver interface anyway, I doubt there’s any significant benefit (and probably quite a few detriments) to getting rid of them. (Or not using a similarly low level wrapper like the PS3 or Wii do) Well, SteamOs is openGl likely with some nice extensions. If you mean Mantle vs DX - yeah no, DX is deifnitley not a thin wrapper. It completely hides GPU memory from you. For compute, there is nothing to do but put your stuff in the buffer, and when it gets back, it gets back, who knows when that will be though. There’s also a lot of CPU overhead, specially with certain particular tasks, like draw calls. Mantle increases draw calls over DX 11.2 (which is a HUGE step up from DX9) by over 900%. It’s also impossible to really do a good job of parallelizing the CPU workload in terms of the renderer. Mantle would alleviate ALL of these things. We’re talking similar access to the GPU as devs have on a PS4. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/64 "2013-09-26T23:30:10Z")
I’ll grant you the DX point because I admittedly only use GL, and assumed DX was similar. As for mantle, it seems like a double edged sword based on what I read just now. It seems like the kind of thing John Carmack will make have 500000% speed increases, but most developers will end up hitting 30% speed penalties with because it turns out they’re not actually as good at managing GPU memory as they thought they were. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/65 "2013-09-26T23:45:34Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I’ll grant you the DX point because I admittedly only use GL, and assumed DX was similar. As for mantle, it seems like a double edged sword based on what I read just now. It seems like the kind of thing John Carmack will make have 500000% speed increases, but most developers will end up hitting 30% speed penalties with because it turns out they’re not actually as good at managing GPU memory as they thought they were. Well, DX11/OpenGL is still there for devs who don’t have the engineering manpower to make use of Mantle. The thing is, really, where the use of it becomes a victory is when third party engines utilize it. Most devs that don’t have the ability to utilize these kinds of low level optimizations, are the devs that simply use a third party engine. We’ve got Frostbite 3 on the roster now, with 15 new upcoming games slated to use it, pretty much all EA games, actually, and specifically Dragon Age 3, the Next NFS, the next MAss Effectm etc, etc. It looks like Crytek’s Cryengine is up next, and that means many PC exclusives will benefit form Star Citizen to the newly announced Lichdom. If they can get Unreal and ID (and if carmack has anything to say about, ID will absolutely use this, dude hates DX), that covers a good 90% of games for the foreseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/66 "2013-09-27T00:20:25Z")
I’ve wondered exactly what SteamOS\* is supposed to do that existing gaming consoles or Windows PCs don’t. (Yes, I have read the thread.) The thing is, if you’re really into your PC gaming, you’re unlikely to decide to ditch your customised gaming machine in favour of the Steam Box or SteamOS and unless there’s a _lot_ of AAA exclusive titles for the platform, I just can’t see people embracing it at this stage short of something like the dual-boot option mentioned before. On a tangent, the “Death of PC Gaming” hue and cry has been going on for years and to date, the only major, widely acclaimed AAA release I’m aware of that does not have a PC release is _Red Dead Redemption_, for reasons that have never been made particularly clear. Basically, as a PC gamer, I don’t generally feel like I’m “missing out” in any great way at the moment, short of having to wait until next year to play _Grand Theft Auto V_ and based on what I’ve read, I can’t see SteamOS radically changing my gaming experience at this stage. \*And what’s the bet “GLaDOS” was seriously raised as a name for it during at least one point during the development stage? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/67 "2013-09-27T00:36:47Z")
Possibly stupid question alert… What does Mantle do for the gamer? Will I see a noticeable leap forward in game graphics or does it just make it easier/faster for designers and developers to deliver what they’re delivering today? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/68 "2013-09-27T01:03:56Z")
I’m not sure you’ll see much from games like shooters and RPGs since I think asset creation is usually more of a bottleneck than GPU resources, but it could give a pretty nice leap for things like RTS or large simulation games and such where you already have to do extreme LOD scaling just due to the sheer number of objects on the screen. If it works well enough, it may also make it so that even really beautiful settings can be run on a toaster. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/69 "2013-09-27T01:31:17Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Getting rid of windows brings down the price of a gaming PC by $50-$100, and with things like Mantle and OpenGL should hopefully allow parity to GPU access regardless of what OS you are using. > [@Kinthalis](#): > > It’s incredibly likely that you’ll see machines dual booting OS’s coming from hardware manufacturers as well. hit alt+F12 and boom, your windows. Hit it again, and boom, your in SteamOS. Best of both worlds. ??? So not only do you still have to buy Windows, you have to switch OS every time you want to do anything besides game? What’s the advantage of SteamOS again? If it’s greater performance, people will just pay more for better specs upfront. We’re in an age where even making a game for a single platform is barely profitable, and they expect people to use an OS that does LESS than what they already use? And enough people to take it up to attract game devs? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/70 "2013-09-27T01:37:24Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > ??? So not only do you still have to buy Windows, you have to switch OS every time you want to do anything besides game? What’s the advantage of SteamOS again? If it’s greater performance, people will just pay more for better specs upfront. > > We’re in an age where even making a game for a single platform is barely profitable, and they expect people to use an OS that does LESS than what they already use? And enough people to take it up to attract game devs? Maybe it’s just not for you? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/71 "2013-09-27T01:39:15Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Possibly stupid question alert… > > What does Mantle do for the gamer? Will I see a noticeable leap forward in game graphics or does it just make it easier/faster for designers and developers to deliver what they’re delivering today? This has nothing to do with development of assets or game design. This makes it possible for developers to fully utilize the GPU. They can optimize the heck out of their engine so that ti runs optimally on that hardware. That can translate into a number of things. Better performance, more graphical effects, more objects on screen, etc, etc, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/72 "2013-09-27T14:44:02Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Better performance, more graphical effects, more objects on screen, etc, etc, etc. So really just better performance, because those other things that you list are potential consequences of developers deciding that their performance is good enough that they can add more stuff without slowing it down. Which of course may or may not result in any actual improvement in games, since “more graphical effects” in particular can just result in the screen being full of crap that obscures your view. Incremental performance improvement, that will hopefully pay off, but probably not really more than all the other incremental performance improvements we see over time. And because PC specs are notoriously all over the place, this extra performance may or may not even be used, depending on the developer. So basically, business as usual for PC gaming. I guess it’s nice to have an improvement that’s not driven by hardware, but I’ve long ago ceased to be concerned with the ‘improvements’ performance brings to my PC gaming experience, because lemme tell you, FTL really benefitted from all the power my PC had to bring to the table. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/73 "2013-09-27T15:10:51Z")
Well, it’s not all down to performance, though that would be the number one benefit. Since the GPU is no longer covered in a shroud of DX-turin things that were not possible, or extremely expensive to do (and therefore either not done at all, or marginalized), can now be done cheaply, easily. One example, I mentioned above - physics that affect gameplay directly. Complex physics have been fairly limited to particle effects on PC. Think Physx from Nvidia. It’s very hard to incorporate the results of those calculations into the game logic due to latency issues. Mantle would allow the game engine to send complex physics to the GPU, and optimize the way the GPU returns the results so that the data can be acted upon by the CPU. Blah blah blah, I barely understand it myself. I’m not well versed in 3D engine pipelines. But the end result is that the tremendous compute power of these current and future PC GPU’s can be fully utilized by games. To do what? Who knows? More destruction that actually affects gameplay vs just looking pretty? Some thing else some developer out there dreams up? That’s the exciting part! ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/74 "2013-09-27T15:13:15Z")
The next announcement is due soon. Anyone taking bets? It’s assuredly something to do with some type of gamepad. Modular? Some type of trackball? I’ve heard of cameras that can track our eyeballs with pinpoint accuracy! This way I can simply look at Beef’s character and have my guy effortlessly cuts it’s head off. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/75 "2013-09-27T15:27:29Z")
I think a controller will be part of the Steam Machine’s actual reveal. I think today is going to be a low-latency way to stream Windows games from a PC to a SteamOS box. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/76 "2013-09-27T15:30:38Z")
Virtual sex Streaming content Valve ISP? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/77 "2013-09-27T15:36:31Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > lemme tell you, FTL really benefitted from all the power my PC had to bring to the table. 😉 Just wait until you see it in glorious 52" size on your big screen! > [@Kinthalis](#): > > The next announcement is due soon. Anyone taking bets? Once you have 100 unplayed games in your backlog, Steam cuts you off from entering any more product keys 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/78 "2013-09-27T17:58:56Z")
How do you feel about the controller announcement, **Kinthalis**? ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/79 "2013-09-27T18:02:10Z")
Controller announcement, pretty unsurprising. Also, basically nothing to say about it right now because of all the aspects of gaming, a controller is the one you MOST need to experience firsthand before you can judge it. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530/80 "2013-09-27T18:05:52Z")
Interesting. So, an ultra sensitive, extremely accurate trackpad with haptic feedback so accurate, it could turn the darn things into speakers, and can be clicked. Topped with a high rez LCD touch screen that also clicks? The things with controls is… you don’t really know until you use them. These appear to tackle the main issues with traditional gamepads. Sticks are incredibly inaccurate. and are also analog, NOT a 1:1 scan. These would be a lot more accurate, and yet could also simulate analog sticks when needed. It’s hard to really wrap my brain around using these as replacements to a mouse + keyboard without actually playing with one. It might be that they aren’t meant to be replacements, but rather analogs to that will only truly shine once developers develop with this in mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-steamos/669530.md?page=5)