# Introducing the former Bruce Jenner **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361 "2015-06-01T17:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/181 "2015-06-04T00:16:58Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > why do you care if i care? why do you care THAT i care? Can somebody please link to the XKCD panel? The “some one is wrong on the internet!” one? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/182 "2015-06-04T00:19:54Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Can somebody please link to the XKCD panel? The “some one is wrong on the internet!” one? [https://xkcd.com/386/](https://xkcd.com/386/) ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/183 "2015-06-04T02:26:32Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > Here’s a better example: Metta World Peace. Artest changes his name, and it’s RIDICULOUS what he picked, but hey–he legally changed his hame. > > During the playoff series against the Thunder, he hurt James Hardin, antics we all expect from Artest/Peace, and suddenly the on-air announcers are calling him “Artest” again. “Let’s be clear, here people–,” they started. “–This _is_ Ron Artest being Artest, and I refuse to pretend he’s a better person now that he’s simply changed his name.” > > Are they assholes? Are they just sooo disrespectful we should make a whole thing of it? No. You don’t care–none of you care. Because it’s not involving some kind of knee-jerk social issue of which we all feel it so prudent to accept whole-cloth. > > Bruce Jenner was an ego-maniacal selfish idiot who has been capitalizing on fame for the sake of fame for years. Now that same bad person decides to be a woman, and we are all expected to fawn over how brave and amazing SHE suddenly is. The math doesn’t even make sense. An ego-maniacal selfish idiot who KILLED someone a few months ago. Now was she on her phone or did the person in front slam on the brakes giving Caitlyn no chance to react? No idea. We’ll find out. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/184 "2015-06-04T02:37:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Now was she on her phone or did the person in front slam on the brakes giving Caitlyn no chance to react? No idea. Were the air bags installed yet? ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/185 "2015-06-04T02:39:41Z")
**don’t be so jumpy** You are still arguing things that don’t exist. Please give me cites for the following: Any place Jenner “officially” states (as you put it) that she never plans to have SRS (not saying “not at the moment”, not saying she’s not discussing it, but actually stating as you assert, that she does not plan surgery ever) -My refutation: her telling Diane Sawyer that she had already gotten the two doctors’ required approval and did plan further surgery. Jenner saying that she ever wanted to use a new name other than Caitlyn (again, not speculation in a tabloid on possibly names, but any quote where she actually referred to herself by another name)-you suggest Belinda or Agnes but have not provided a single source that Jenner ever referred to herself by either name. Any statement since the Sawyer interview where she states that she wants people to continue to use male pronouns. Again, every souce you have cited so far merely quotes what whe said in the Sawyer interview which was that people could use male pronouns until she was ready to ask them to change, which she then did via twitter. But let’s just say that you are right and this entire thing is a planned publicity stunt for more than 30 years. Let’s speculate that 30 years ago, Jenner was able to predict the advent of reality television and carefully concocted a story that she was transgender. She took hormones for 5 years, had rhinoplasty and electrolysis and divorced her wife, while telling the wife she was transgender. She then remarried Kris Kardashian accurately predicting that her then 10 year old daughter would in the future have a sex tape released that would afford her enough fame for the family to get a reality television series. She then underwent several other painful and potentially irreversible surgeries including a tracheal shaving, a 10-hour facial feminization surgery and breast augmentation as well as taking hormones again and risking public condemnation as a freak by intolerant people as well as a real risk of destroying any career and the potential for physical harm, all for fame and money. In that case, I salute Jenner because anybody who would go through all that to earn a buck definitely deserves my praise. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/186 "2015-06-04T02:47:13Z")
I don’t think this has been a thought out 30 year publicity stunt. But every single thing that this family does is to get you to look at them. Planning a gala, choosing a dress, having marital drama, marrying a sports star so you can divorce him a month later. They have 3-5 cameras rolling on every move they make and will do anything in front of them to get you to watch. Jenner could very well be transgender, but in this case, with these people, WHO KNOWS? Like I said earlier, don’t be surprised when in a year or two he decides to transform back into a male…all for the camera. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/187 "2015-06-04T03:33:44Z")
It’s VERY WEIRD thinking back to the 1976 S.I. cover with Bruce Jenner on it (I guess celebrating his Olympic decathlon title) and seeing “Caitlyn” now. Just too freaky. But hey - if (s)he feels more comfortable parading around as a female then all the more power to her. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/188 "2015-06-04T03:52:51Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > It’s VERY WEIRD thinking back to the 1976 S.I. cover with Bruce Jenner on it (I guess celebrating his Olympic decathlon title) and seeing “Caitlyn” now. Just too freaky. But hey - if (s)he feels more comfortable parading around as a female then all the more power to her. “parading around”? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/189 "2015-06-04T04:04:24Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > **don’t be so jumpy** > > You are still arguing things that don’t exist. Please give me cites for the following: > > Any place Jenner “officially” states (as you put it) that she never plans to have SRS (not saying “not at the moment”, not saying she’s not discussing it, but actually stating as you assert, that she does not plan surgery ever) > -My refutation: her telling Diane Sawyer that she had already gotten the two doctors’ required approval and did plan further surgery. > > Jenner saying that she ever wanted to use a new name other than Caitlyn (again, not speculation in a tabloid on possibly names, but any quote where she actually referred to herself by another name)-you suggest Belinda or Agnes but have not provided a single source that Jenner ever referred to herself by either name. > > Any statement since the Sawyer interview where she states that she wants people to continue to use male pronouns. Again, every souce you have cited so far merely quotes what whe said in the Sawyer interview which was that people could use male pronouns until she was ready to ask them to change, which she then did via twitter. > > But let’s just say that you are right and this entire thing is a planned publicity stunt for more than 30 years. Let’s speculate that 30 years ago, Jenner was able to predict the advent of reality television and carefully concocted a story that she was transgender. She took hormones for 5 years, had rhinoplasty and electrolysis and divorced her wife, while telling the wife she was transgender. She then remarried Kris Kardashian accurately predicting that her then 10 year old daughter would in the future have a sex tape released that would afford her enough fame for the family to get a reality television series. She then underwent several other painful and potentially irreversible surgeries including a tracheal shaving, a 10-hour facial feminization surgery and breast augmentation as well as taking hormones again and risking public condemnation as a freak by intolerant people as well as a real risk of destroying any career and the potential for physical harm, all for fame and money. In that case, I salute Jenner because anybody who would go through all that to earn a buck definitely deserves my praise. all of these things have been posted already, exactly as you are asking, with links. 1. Does he plan on cutting of his weiner? his exact words: “no.” link posted already in this thread. 2. jenner speculating on names, “call me Belinda,” “call me Agnes,” again already posted, links n’ all. At least one is a video interview IN HIS/HER OWN WORDS. 3. Since the sawyer interview, he released the too-many-times-posted-already statement published on may 28th to call him “he.” already posted, already cited. Again, I ask–if you feel you are a woman for the last three decades, why three days before revealing your female self allow a report to post citing you yourself request the media call you a “he?” Why do that? And how am I the bad guy for not disregarding this?? 4. I never said the guy doesn’t \*want \*to be a woman. I am saying there’s no evidence the manner and mechanism he’s decided wasn’t a simple ploy to expand media presence and money in his account, also left to reverse his decision if that suits him, since he’s not even taking LEGAL action to change his name to a woman’s. He has clearly been trying to look some manner of f’ed up for years, as he’s been ruining his face with surgeries for decades. There is no doubt he has some kind of self-alteration issues, but to act all “oh bless her little heart” because a white male has jockeyed for a reality show tv empire and has the funds to ruin his looks via plastic surgery and the white privilege to buy fake tits and all of the luxury involved in a white rich male to CHOOSE to become a woman, and bending that highly personal experience into nothing but a vehicle to make more money and to gain more notoriety–? sorry. I won’t take that kind of person seriously, especially given the fact THIS PERSON HAS YET TO LEGALLY CHANGE THEIR NAME TO A WOMAN’S NAME. \*\*\*my great holy fuck, you people: if you felt for THIRTY YEARS you were a woman, wouldn’t you change your legal name THE DAY you pick your female persona? \*\*\* “oh just ignore that, you factual type logic person. JUST BE TOO P.C. TO THINK STRAIGHT LIKE US. or else you’re a transphobic!” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/190 "2015-06-04T04:09:16Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > “parading around”? only releasing info via high-profile interviews, only releasing images as a woman on Vanity Fair’s Cover, coordinating their transition only on an E! series. PARADING AROUND. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/191 "2015-06-04T04:43:09Z")
Someone mentioned earlier about the possibility of doing this in secret. Just fyi, websites like blindgossip have been accusing (I hesitate to call it reporting) her of crossdressing since 2009. If she’s chosen to go public with it, it very well may be that she felt it was going to be public regardless so it might as well be on her terms. Me, I’ve never had any difficulty curating the media I consume. I feel so deeply for the OP and others who are forced against their will to read nothing but articles about Jenner. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/192 "2015-06-04T05:00:51Z")
So, **MOIDALIZE**. I’m going out on a limb here, but I’m assuming this is not your legal name. I’m also presuming that you don’t mean to trick people into thinking that it is. You could have used the name on your birth certificate, but you didn’t. Because you have decided that this is more convenient to you, on this forum you prefer to be known as “MOIDALIZE”. And nobody makes a fuss about it, because it’s perfectly acceptable. We just need your name to be different from the others on this board, so we know who is saying what in a discussion, and we can adress a person directly, should we feel the need to. So how is you preferring to be known as MOIDALIZE different from this hypothetical Engelbert who would really prefer to be called Steve in social situations? ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/193 "2015-06-04T05:05:49Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Does he plan on cutting of his weiner? his exact words: “no.” link posted already in this thread. > > 2. jenner speculating on names, “call me Belinda,” “call me Agnes,” again already posted, links n’ all. At least one is a video interview IN HIS/HER OWN WORDS. > > 3. Since the sawyer interview, he released the too-many-times-posted-already statement published on may 28th to call him “he.” already posted, already cited. Again, I ask–if you feel you are a woman for the last three decades, why three days before revealing your female self allow a report to post citing you yourself request the media call you a “he?” Why do that? And how am I the bad guy for not disregarding this?? I looked at all of your links. Not one of them says what you claim they say. Not one of them has Jenner saying what you claim she says. In the long run, though, you will believe what you want to believe and will interpret anything you read through the prism of your own feeling and experience. Is Jenner trying to get fame and publicity? Quite possibly. Does that negate anything about her story being inspirational? Not in my opinion. Do I think that she is trying to keep her options open to potentially transition back to male in the future? I think that this option is very very unlikely especially since she indicated to Diane Sawyer that she was already making preparations for SRS at some point in the future. Also, how do you know that she has not legally changed her name? Are you privy to the local court records? Finally, it should go without saying that she is free to reveal as much or as little of her private life as she wants. If people are willing to pay her to reveal details then she has the right to get paid but she also has the right to remain silent on any details she wishes. The ultimate bottom line is that she has announced her new name and has asked over the past two days to now be referred to by the new name and has indicated that the time has now come where she would like to be referred to by female pronouns. You are free to ignore her requests just like you have the right not to refer to anybody by their preferred name. Again, I still have the right to consider her journey inspirational. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/194 "2015-06-04T08:57:59Z")
I had made a comment long before this Bruce Jenner transitioning story that where were all this female Kardashians coming from? It seemed like every time I went in the grocery there was a new younger female Kardashian sister on the covers of the gossip rags, I was like do they have a bunch of these sister being raised in a remote location somewhere and bring a new one into the spotlight when interest is waning? Like new younger Cosby kids? Someone yesterday reminded me of my comment and said they must have run out of them because now they are resorting to turning Bruce into the new Kardashian female for the tabloids. And you know what that is why I think so many people find this surreal, it isn’t pure bigotry or even that Bruce Jenner transitioned, I bet this would have gone over better in a reality where the Kardashian media empire and circus never existed. But because of the association with them and history of them it makes this seem unreal. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/195 "2015-06-04T14:17:25Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > \*\*\*my great holy fuck, you people: if you felt for THIRTY YEARS you were a woman, wouldn’t you change your legal name THE DAY you pick your female persona? \*\*\* > > “oh just ignore that, you factual type logic person. JUST BE TOO P.C. TO THINK STRAIGHT LIKE US. or else you’re a transphobic!” Great holy fuck, you’re obviously well aware that your thinking is completely out of step with the mainstream and with most Dopers in particular, because you keep feeling a need to make up strawman claims that people are accusing you of being transphobic. So why the hell do you think _anyone_ is going to take your moonbat logic about SHE HASN’T CHANGED HER NAME LEGALLY CONNECT THE DOTS PEOPLE as anything other than worthy of ridicule? Because it is, indeed, ridiculous logic. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/196 "2015-06-04T16:47:17Z")
Pretty sure it can be simultaneously true that: [ol] [li]Caitlyn Jenner is a woman. Her subjective experience of herself has been as female since at least the mid-'80s, she began taking steps to live as female 30 years ago.[/li][li]Caitlyn Jenner has the same love of the limelight as, and no more dignity than, her in-laws.[/li][/ol] I haven’t seen the Kim Kardashian sex tape, and I’m not going to bother just for this, but I’ll bet she enjoyed the sex while it was happening, at least somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![soonerblue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/soonerblue/32/3302_2.png) [@soonerblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soonerblue)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/197 "2015-06-04T17:00:13Z")
> [@Cheesehead](#): > > I agree with this! > [@MostlyClueless](#): > > Had Caitlyn tried to do everything in private, the paparazzi would have been all over her anyway. As far as privacy is concerned, that cat isn’t getting back into the bag. > > So she decided to take the narrative into her own hands. I think that’s the best option she had. Right, it was going to cause a media frenzy no matter how the transformation was revealed. Bruce Jenner went about it the right way if you ask me, probably the only way he could. I’m thinking it’s a good thing this spotlight is on someone we’ve know for decades. Bruce spent so much time inside the fishbowl of celebrity life, from the Olympics to the Kardashians, and now, as Caitlyn, has the power to do good, to start opening up hearts and minds, and educating mainstream popular culture in gender dysphoria and transition. Look how national acceptance of gays and lesbians has changed in the past 10 years, even 5 years … now it’s time for our education about transgenders. It might take a couple of decades before people just get over it, but it’s an important start. The transgender community needs all the help it can get, the public doesn’t hear about discrimination against transgender people often enough, the trouble they have with everyday life, employment, etc. … not to mention how many are murdered, battered, bullied and driven to suicide. Here’s a fact sheet about transgender issues: [http://www.transgenderlaw.org/resources/transfactsheet.pdf](http://www.transgenderlaw.org/resources/transfactsheet.pdf) Also, even though Caitlyn mentioned “Malibu mortage payments,” I’d like to see her put some of that reality show money back into the transgender community to help fight transphobia, programs for teens, etc. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/198 "2015-06-05T05:58:26Z")
Bruce was a washed up celebrity past his prime. Now she’s all set to earn 5 times the money. As the liberals and the media shoves this lifestyle down America’s throat. Ole Bruce will be laughing all the way to the bank. > [@](#): > > Sources who worked for years on booking speaking gigs for Bruce tell TMZ, Caitlyn is worth 5 times what Bruce commanded. Our sources say Bruce used to get $25,000 a pop for motivational speaking … and they say Caitlyn can pull well over $100k. > > Read more: [Caitlyn Jenner -- Five Times More Valuable than Bruce](http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/04/caitlyn-jenner-endorsements-more-money-than-bruce/#ixzz3cAGdmGI6) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/199 "2015-06-05T06:15:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Bruce was a washed up celebrity past his prime. Now she’s all set to earn 5 times the money. As the liberals and the media shoves this lifestyle down America’s throat. Ole Bruce will be laughing all the way to the bank. Are you feeling all right? Serious question because you seem to be _going off the rails on the crazy train_ lately. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/200 "2015-06-05T06:23:35Z")
Quite a few posts in this thread have mentioned the fame and money that Bruce/Caitlyn will reap. Not that money alone was the motivation to change sex. But for someone thinking about doing it anyhow, the money and new fame was a nice bonus. Very few people knew much about Bruce and the Olympics. The majority of people living today weren’t even born when he was a sports star. He gets a brand new shot at fame now. Remember this was the guy that walked away from sports for the money after the Olympics. There was never any question that he’d ever compete again. He got his medals and cashed in. But, you’re right. I need a break. I’m done talking about this guy/girl whatever pronoun fits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361.md?page=11)