# Introducing the former Bruce Jenner **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361 "2015-06-01T17:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/61 "2015-06-01T21:38:48Z")
I don’t know if Caitlyn is planning on having the full sexual reassignment surgery eventually or not. I’m not saying this in a judgemental way but there’s something I don’t get. If you claim to be a woman on the inside or want to be a woman and have the monetary resources but don’t have the actual sexual reassignment surgery would you really consider yourself to be a woman? It just seems odd to not go all the way with it and be sort of in between (intersex?). I hope this question is not coming off as prejudicial in some way because that’s not at all how I mean it. More power to her, she is free to live her life and be happy, I just find this one aspect confusing to me personally. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/62 "2015-06-01T21:39:00Z")
if it has not been mentioned, a lot of TG women still date women. And some even stay married to their wife, I know someone in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/63 "2015-06-01T21:46:32Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I don’t know if Caitlyn is planning on having the full sexual reassignment surgery eventually or not. I’m not saying this in a judgemental way but there’s something I don’t get. If you claim to be a woman on the inside or want to be a woman and have the monetary resources but don’t have the actual sexual reassignment surgery would you really consider yourself to be a woman? It just seems odd to not go all the way with it and be sort of in between (intersex?). > > I hope this question is not coming off as prejudicial in some way because that’s not at all how I mean it. More power to her, she is free to live her life and be happy, I just find this one aspect confusing to me personally. We don’t know what Caitlyn decided. For many trans women, the cost of genital surgery (around $20-30,000 and only recently covered under _some_ health insurance plans) is prohibitive. Another reason is the possibility of losing some degree of sexual feeling. For trans men, genital surgery is far more expensive and far less likely to produce desirable results. A functioning clitoris may well be preferred to a non-functioning penis. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/64 "2015-06-01T21:48:39Z")
I think we can safely assume that, in this case, money is not the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/65 "2015-06-01T21:57:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it’s an age thing. It’s very trendy now, so you’re picking a name that most people associate with a child. But then, maybe (s)he feels newly born. I knew another lady named Caitlyn who had been through the same transition as Caitlyn Jenner, and at first found it similarly jarring that she’d chosen a name that was practically unheard of in her age group. It’s a pretty name, and of course anyone should be able to choose any name for themselves that they feel comfortable with, but I find it momentarily distracting in the same way as when I meet a small child with a name that’s uncommon for their generation (ie a three year old Barbara, a toddler named Barry). Still, “Caitlyn Jenner” is a lovely name and perhaps her former stepdaughter could get some tips on names before she churns out another lame pun like North West. Is that even a pun? It’s not, is it? It’s just a direction. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/66 "2015-06-01T22:00:50Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I don’t know if Caitlyn is planning on having the full sexual reassignment surgery eventually or not. I’m not saying this in a judgemental way but there’s something I don’t get. If you claim to be a woman on the inside or want to be a woman and have the monetary resources but don’t have the actual sexual reassignment surgery would you really consider yourself to be a woman? It just seems odd to not go all the way with it and be sort of in between (intersex?). Intersex doesn’t mean someone who’s only partially transitioned from one gender to another. Intersex refers to people who were born with sexual characteristics from both genders. Generally speaking, trans people do not consider any one surgery or hormone treatment as necessary before they can identify as their desired gender. A male-to-female trans person is female when they decide to identify (publicly or privately) as one, not when they’ve reached some arbitrary milestone in their medical treatment. Most trans people will say that they’ve _always_ been their destination gender, even before they were aware that there was such a thing as being “transgender,” let alone before they started having any sort of treatments for it. As for why someone who can afford to have full SRS, but decides not to, there can be any number of reasons, but the easiest to understand is that SRS is major surgery, and like any major surgery, there’s a potential for complications, a lot of pain, and a lengthy recovery period. If a person is able to transition successfully enough that they can pass with their clothes on, then they might decide that’s good enough, and spare themselves the ordeal of surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/67 "2015-06-01T22:09:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it’s an age thing. It’s very trendy now, so you’re picking a name that most people associate with a child. But then, maybe (s)he feels newly born. It peaked in 1990, according to Babyname voyager. So “children” in this case would be in their twenties ( though still younger than Jenner, obviously) . ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/68 "2015-06-01T22:20:57Z")
also if the couple does not divorce after a sex change then you end up with a same sex marriage but of course the state doesn’t know about that type of SSM. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/69 "2015-06-01T22:43:26Z")
ISTM that if you look at the timeline, she had the facial feminization surgery after the Kardashian episode and the Sawyer interview were taped. She also appears to have had breast implants since then (at least they sure look like implants in the pictures). Personally, I think it’s none of my business to comment on any surgeries unless she discusses them, but both these surgeries have been discussed. I can’t imagine that a 10-hour facial feminization surgery would not show a visible change, similar to that in the Vanity Fair article. That said, anything else she chooses not to reveal is none of my business. As a straight woman, I think she looks great, especially for 65. Her figure is killer. I could never pose in an outfit like that. I think she’s pretty. I wish her all the best but I am not sure whether I will watch her new series since I am still against famewhoring reality shows. I do hope that by going public she can raise some awareness about the transgender community and help to open some minds. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/70 "2015-06-01T23:14:42Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I’m just glad that Fox news is approaching this story with the class and intelligence for which they are justly famed. [http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/06/01/3664799/fox-news-repeatedly-mocks-misgenders-caitlyn-jenner/](http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/06/01/3664799/fox-news-repeatedly-mocks-misgenders-caitlyn-jenner/) hey, you got sarcasm on my screen! ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/71 "2015-06-01T23:16:47Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I don’t know if Caitlyn is planning on having the full sexual reassignment surgery eventually or not. I’m not saying this in a judgemental way but there’s something I don’t get. If you claim to be a woman on the inside or want to be a woman and have the monetary resources but don’t have the actual sexual reassignment surgery would you really consider yourself to be a woman? It just seems odd to not go all the way with it and be sort of in between (intersex?). > > I hope this question is not coming off as prejudicial in some way because that’s not at all how I mean it. More power to her, she is free to live her life and be happy, I just find this one aspect confusing to me personally. I don’t know much about this but I wonder if a male to female reassignment surgery risks loss of sexual response. How is sexual response affected by the hormone therapy? If I was considering reassignment surgery and one of the risks was losing the ability to enjoy sex vs. keeping the penis/testes and continuing to be able to enjoy sex I could see forgoing the surgery. Again, I don’t know, maybe someone can explain. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/72 "2015-06-01T23:19:10Z")
I find it a bit odd that Bruce chose the name Caitlyn, since that is the name of his son Brody’s girlfriend. What happened to Belinda? I’m really happy for Caitlyn, and I cannot imagine how free she must finally feel. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/73 "2015-06-01T23:30:27Z")
It would be odd to be in hollywood and not have fake boobs 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/74 "2015-06-01T23:33:08Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > It’s just some person I don’t know personally and I have not seen Bruce Jenner since the 80’s. Then again, I have never seen that Kardashian show he was part of and I only watch streamed and recorded shows. He was totally off the radar for me. I guess he is the biggest celeb. to change genders? I can’t think of any more famous. To me she’s the _Can’t Stop the Music_ dude who isn’t a Vilage Person. Not that I’ve seen _Can’t Stop the Music_. > [@Nava](#): > > I have no idea whether Fox411 is a local affiliate or a program, but both the Fox 411 text and the FoxNews video refer to her as Bruce Jenner. The video refers to “Jenner dressed as a woman” (sic). It’s not wrong, she is dressed as a woman. It’s just an odd phrasing, since she, like, is a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/75 "2015-06-01T23:38:05Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > To me she’s the _Can’t Stop the Music_ dude who isn’t a Vilage Person. Not that I’ve seen _Can’t Stop the Music_. > > … Bruce Jenner is Steve Gutenberg? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/76 "2015-06-01T23:42:18Z")
previously the most well known trans person was probably Lana Wachowski who was a director of the Matrix movies. [The Wachowskis - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wachowskis) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/77 "2015-06-02T00:13:58Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > previously the most well known trans person was probably Lana Wachowski who was a director of the Matrix movies. I would have said Chaz Bono. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/78 "2015-06-02T00:21:39Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I’m just glad that Fox news is approaching this story with the class and intelligence for which they are justly famed. [http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/06/01/3664799/fox-news-repeatedly-mocks-misgenders-caitlyn-jenner/](http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/06/01/3664799/fox-news-repeatedly-mocks-misgenders-caitlyn-jenner/) Is Dagen McDowell drunk or does she always slur? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/79 "2015-06-02T00:22:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I would have said Chaz Bono. I would have said Christine Jorgensen. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361/80 "2015-06-02T00:52:26Z")
10 hours of surgery on face and implants [Bruce Jenner unveiled as Caitlyn on Vanity Fair cover | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3106132/Call-Caitlyn-Bruce-Jenner-unveiled-woman-busty-basque-underwear-cover-Vanity-Fair.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/introducing-the-former-bruce-jenner/721361.md?page=5)