# Intruder injured by boobytrap in home invasion, homeowner arrested. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 13, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850 "2005-11-13T15:31:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/21 "2005-11-13T17:36:53Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > And if the trap had killed a fireman, or dear old Auntie Agatha? Obviously a very different circumstance. Read my post again, which clearly referred to the specific example of a repeatedly victimized homeowner, who set up what should have been a non-lethal trap for a burglar, and which ended up killing the burglar. Would you favor the same penalty in these two scenarios: 1. Individual who is repeatedly threatened by physically abusive stalker, shoots and kills stalker battering at her front door. 2. Individual fearful of strangers, who shoots through her front door and kills the UPS man. ? ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/22 "2005-11-13T17:41:53Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > And if the trap had killed a fireman, or dear old Auntie Agatha? And if Agatha had balls… ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/23 "2005-11-13T17:50:58Z")
How many times had this guy been robbed (possibly by the same guy) where he felt compelled to put up a sign and booby trap his home? I always wondered what goes through the majority of minds of criminals who break into homes to steal. Do they consider what they will do if they encounter a resident during the break in? Will the majority of them run, or attack the resident? In my mind, if you are in my home then you mean me harm. You made a conscious decision to take the risks associated with breaking and entering my dwelling. Odds are fairly strong that at this point you (as a burglar) have already considered this and simply don’t care, which means you are a danger to me. I doubt that I’d set booby traps in my home after the first robbery, maybe not even after the second. But how many times before I start taking matters into my own hands? I absolutely **must** feel safe in my own home if nowhere else. If you keep taking that away from me, perhaps booby trapping becomes the only alternative. I know some will argue that I should just move, but is that always an option? If you live in a shitty neighborhood you probably can’t afford to move. Still, it would take a serious situation for me to consider booby trapping my home, but I will say one thing, and this is something that will not be popular on these boards… If I _catch_ you breaking into my house, you will not leave alive. You’ve made a decision to take your life into your hands by breaking and entering and you should know that I consider you a threat to my life and the lives of my family. There is no way that I will allow you to live, so that you can come back after serving your sentence and exact your revenge on me at your leisure. There is one certain way to guarantee that you will not be killed in my home, and that is to stay the hell out of it unless you have been invited. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/24 "2005-11-13T18:00:21Z")
> [@meara](#): > > After reading the linked article, I’m with the cops on this one. There are a lot of scenarios which would have led to that trap being sprung by a fireman, a policeman, an EMT, a family member or a child. Or a burglar, who doesn’t deserve to die for being a burglar. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/25 "2005-11-13T18:08:45Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Or a burglar, who doesn’t deserve to die for being a burglar. People get killed all the time by burglars/robbers. Is their right to live any less than the potential killer’s right to live? Bust into my home, and you better be ready to run. It’s that simple. I won’t risk my life or the lives of others in my house to wait and see if you’re planning to kill someone. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/26 "2005-11-13T18:11:47Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > If I _catch_ you breaking into my house, you will not leave alive. You’ve made a decision to take your life into your hands by breaking and entering and you should know that I consider you a threat to my life and the lives of my family. There is no way that I will allow you to live, so that you can come back after serving your sentence and exact your revenge on me at your leisure. I feel this is morally wrong. As I said, an intruder has to ask himself whether what he wants is worth his life. But that doesn’t mean his life has to be taken. In spite of my collection of firearms (some would call it an ‘arsenal’ and ‘alarming’) none of them are for defence. I do have _one_ pistol with a loaded magazine, but the pistol itself is unloaded. I do not feel threatened in my home. (Or anywhere else, for that matter.) If someone came into my home, I might use the pistol to _stop_ him. Stop. Not kill. He might die, but I would never intentionally kill anyone. If someone pointed a gun at me, I would shoot. But to _stop_, not to kill. Of course I’d aim for his torso. If he dies, he dies. He shouldn’t have pointed a gun at me. But my intention would be to stop him. If I kill him, then I’ll have to live with it the rest of my life. If I _intended_ to kill him, then I’ll have to live with it the rest of my life _and_ face possible criminal charges. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/27 "2005-11-13T18:14:53Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > And if Agatha had balls… Uncle Agatha? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/28 "2005-11-13T18:17:57Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > People get killed all the time by burglars/robbers. Is their right to live any less than the potential killer’s right to live? Bust into my home, and you better be ready to run. It’s that simple. I won’t risk my life or the lives of others in my house to wait and see if you’re planning to kill someone. In the case of a booby trap, your life isn’t at risk because you’re not there. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/29 "2005-11-13T18:34:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Would you favor the same penalty in these two scenarios: > > 1. Individual who is repeatedly threatened by physically abusive stalker, shoots and kills stalker battering at her front door. > > 2. Individual fearful of strangers, who shoots through her front door and kills the UPS man. > > ? No, i would not favor the same penalty, but you’re completely missing the point of the argument. As the case cited by **Campion** says: > [@](#): > > Where the actor is present, there is always the possibility he will realize that deadly force is not necessary, but deadly mechanical devices are without mercy or discretion. Such devices "are silent instrumentalities of death. They deal death and destruction to the innocent as well as the criminal intruder without the slightest warning. In other words, the law makes a specific distinction between a person firing a gun in defense of his or her home, and a mechanical gun that is set up to defend the property. The very decision you are asking us to judge is a decision that a mechanical gun has no power to make. It fires indiscriminately at whomever happens to trigger the mechanism. In a case like this, the person who set the trap is being punished not only for the damage it did to the burglar, but for the damage it might have done to someone who had a legitimate reason for entering the house. And that’s why the damn things are illegal. > [@SteveG1](#): > > People get killed all the time by burglars/robbers. Is their right to live any less than the potential killer’s right to live? Bust into my home, and you better be ready to run. It’s that simple. I won’t risk my life or the lives of others in my house to wait and see if you’re planning to kill someone. Another person who is specifically missing the distinction between being able to make the decision to fire yourself, on the one hand, and leaving it up to a machine, on the other. No-one in this thread is denying you the right to defend yourself on your own property. As **Metacom** says, if you’re not at home, how is your life in danger? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/30 "2005-11-13T18:35:58Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > In the case of a booby trap, your life isn’t at risk because you’re not there. Strawman. I already said booby traps are not OK. Answer my question. Is the life of the person forcing his way in, more “sacred” than my life? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/31 "2005-11-13T18:40:08Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > No, i would not favor the same penalty, but you’re completely missing the point of the argument. As the case cited by **Campion** says:In other words, the law makes a specific distinction between a person firing a gun in defense of his or her home, and a mechanical gun that is set up to defend the property. The very decision you are asking us to judge is a decision that a mechanical gun has no power to make. It fires indiscriminately at whomever happens to trigger the mechanism. I already said booby traps are not OK. I was concentrating on the “hint” that the bad guy had some innate right to safety or right to life that outweighs the victim in his/her own home. Again, I already said booby traps are bad. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/32 "2005-11-13T18:40:14Z")
Let’s suppose your property is surrounded by a fence. At night, for security, your attack trained guard dogs roam freely. They are unable to discriminate between bad guys and good guys. If they kill an intruder are you to blame? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/33 "2005-11-13T18:42:38Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Strawman. I already said booby traps are not OK. Answer my question. Is the life of the person forcing his way in, more “sacred” than my life? But that’s a different question than the one being asked in this thread. If you are at home, and are in fear for your safety, the answer is “no.” But if you’re not home, the question is completely moot because your life is not in danger. In such cases, the only question is whether a burglar’s life is worth more than your laptop computer or DVD player, and, much as i dislike burglars, the answer to that question is “yes.” ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/34 "2005-11-13T18:43:59Z")
> [@](#): > > But it’s against the law. ‘Two wrongs don’t make a right’ and all that. But the underlying thought is this: ‘I’m going to kill someone who tries to take my property!’ Most people will say, ‘Is a thing worth a person’s life?’ I tend to turn it around. I think a thief should ask himself, ‘Is whatever I want to steal worth my life?’ Thieves have to take their chances, as far as I’m concerned The problem w/ 2 wrongs don’t make a right, is that many see that the homeowner did not wrong the thief. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/35 "2005-11-13T18:46:15Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Let’s suppose your property is surrounded by a fence. At night, for security, your attack trained guard dogs roam freely. They are unable to discriminate between bad guys and good guys. If they kill an intruder are you to blame? You raised them that way, you trained them. You take responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/36 "2005-11-13T18:47:45Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I was concentrating on the “hint” that the bad guy had some innate right to safety or right to life that outweighs the victim in his/her own home. Well, i agree that you shouldn’t have to wait to determine whether the burglar is “just” going to steal stuff, or whether he actually has more nefarious motives. You should be able to defend yourself the moment he enters the place. There was a case in Australia, some years back before i moved to the US, where a guy held up a store (antiques or jewellery, i think). He got his swag, didn’t hurt anyone, and left the store. As he left the property, the store owner pulled a gun from behind the counter, followed him outside, and shot him in the back as he ran away. Now, as i said, i have no time for burglars or robbers, but in this case the only thing saved by this man’s death was a bunch of stuff. No-one’s life was in danger any more, the immediate threat was over. This is the sort of thing i think is unjustified. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/37 "2005-11-13T18:49:25Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > But that’s a different question than the one being asked in this thread. If you are at home, and are in fear for your safety, the answer is “no.” > > But if you’re not home, the question is completely moot because your life is not in danger. In such cases, the only question is whether a burglar’s life is worth more than your laptop computer or DVD player, and, much as i dislike burglars, the answer to that question is “yes.” If nobody is at home, I’d be pissed off at being robbed, but there was no life threat actual or implied. AS I ALREADY SAID, NO BOOBY TRAPS. However, if I AM at home and some tweaker smashes his way in, all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/38 "2005-11-13T18:50:02Z")
So, the booby trap is illegal, but would it be okay to set up a silent alarm in your bedroom and then take the burgular by surprise and shoot him? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/39 "2005-11-13T18:53:43Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > He got his swag, didn’t hurt anyone, and left the store. As he left the property, the store owner pulled a gun from behind the counter, followed him outside, and shot him in the back as he ran away. > > Now, as i said, i have no time for burglars or robbers, but in this case the only thing saved by this man’s death was a bunch of stuff. No-one’s life was in danger any more, the immediate threat was over. This is the sort of thing i think is unjustified. Right. He had the stuff and was leaving. Nobody had been hurt. If he had been shot during the robbery, it could be justified… “We didn’t know if he was not going to kill us anyway”. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850/40 "2005-11-13T18:59:10Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > So, the booby trap is illegal, but would it be okay to set up a silent alarm in your bedroom and then take the burgular by surprise and shoot him? How many ways are we going to fiddle with the conditions? What if he looks like Freddy Kruger and materializes out of the wall? What if he looks like the hated cousin who tortured your puppies and drwoned you duck in the swimming pool? What if it’s a little green man with an anal probe? If I am at home, and someone breaks in, and I feel threatened, I will shoot. If I wound him fine. If I miss and he shits his pants and runs off, fine. If he dies, it’s unfortunate but he was not supposed to be there anyway. What should I do? Offer him a cup of coffee and brownies? Wait for him to shoot or stab first? I don’t think so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intruder-injured-by-boobytrap-in-home-invasion-homeowner-arrested/330850.md?page=3)