# Intrusive? Racist? Useful concern? All of the above? (Stranger questions interracial family photos) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 7, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258 "2015-01-07T20:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/1 "2015-01-07T20:14:31Z")
> [@](#): > > After my family arrives on the Cape May ferry for our annual vacation to the Jersey Shore, I take pictures of our two daughters on the ferry’s deck as we leave the harbor. I’ve been doing this since they were 3 and 4 years old. They are now 16 and 17. Each photo chronicles one year in the life of our family and our daughters’ growth into the beautiful young women they have become. Getting just the right exposure and interaction between the two has never been easy. They’ve gone from squirming toddlers to ambivalent teens who barely put up with their dad’s ongoing photography project. > > But this year, everything was perfect. It has been an extraordinary summer in the Mid-Atlantic: mild heat with low humidity. On that first day of vacation, the sea was calm and the sky a brilliant blue. As I focused on the image in my camera’s viewfinder, the girls stood in their usual spot against the railing at the back of the boat. I was looking for just the right pose — often waiting for that perfect smile or pausing as they fixed their hair after a strong ocean breeze. I was trying to get just the right exposure and flash combination to bring out their faces in the harsh midday sun. > > Totally engaged with the scene in front of me, I jumped when a man came up beside me and said to my daughters: “I would be remiss if I didn’t ask if you were okay.” So begins an opinion piece in the Washington Post from [photographer Jeff Gates](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-was-taking-pictures-of-my-daughters-but-a-stranger-thought-i-was-exploiting-them/2014/08/29/34831bb8-2c6c-11e4-994d-202962a9150c_story.html?tid=hybrid_control_strip_2), who goes on to explain that the man claimed to work for Homeland Security and said his suspicions were kindled because Gates was "…standing there taking photos of them hugging for 15 minutes.” And of course, because the two girls were Asian, adopted as youngsters by Gates and his wife. I see both sides of this. Obviously it’s an ugly suggestion to a decent man that his traditional family picture-taking is mistaken for some kind of sex slavery / exploitation advertising. But then, when we read about sex slavery and exploitation, don’t we wonder why no one says anything, and think that perhaps if a trafficked victim had a chance to be rescued by someone asking if she needed help, we should err on the side of asking? Gates goes on to suggest some middle ground approach that might have softened the blow, and maybe that’s correct… “What a beautiful family you have there,” would have been perfectly polite but still opened the door. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/2 "2015-01-07T20:33:32Z")
Well, it’s intrusive and racist, to be sure. Is it a useful concern? I dunno. I don’t go around asking various women I don’t know if their husbands are beating them, either. Maybe If I really were a good person, I would, though. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/3 "2015-01-07T20:41:53Z")
Huh, I’d never thought I’d see a post from an American conservative complaining about a case of racial profiling. My view is that the event was quite unfortunate and probably ruined his day with his daughters. However, the agent didn’t seem to be on a power trip so it stopped right there. Change a few things around and things could’ve ended MUCH worse. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/4 "2015-01-07T20:57:33Z")
No more racist than a stop and frisk policy that targets members of certain minority groups. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/5 "2015-01-07T21:04:05Z")
> [@black\_rabbit](#): > > No more racist than a stop and frisk policy that targets members of certain minority groups. So, racist. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/6 "2015-01-07T21:19:24Z")
Is it “of course, because the girls are Asian” or more just like “dude is awkwardly taking photos of two teenaged girls”? There’s been no shortage of young women who have been kidnapped for years [relatively] lately. Not sure why asking some teenagers if they are ok has a racial bent to it. Could be dad is sensitive to their race? Which is understandable. People do suck. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/7 "2015-01-07T21:22:15Z")
Let’s see here, we have: 1. a professional photographer (probably obvious by his equipment) 2. an unusual posing session (in my family, it’s “line up and click” not 15 minutes of posing.) 3. two under-age girls of a different race than the photographer None of these are normal. While there certainly was an innocent explanation, I think we ought to be applauding the Homeland Security agent for making sure everything is OK. He went above and beyond to protect potential victims who are often afraid to speak up and are often “hidden in plain sight.” Frankly, I’m outraged that the photographer/writer can have his head shoved so far up his ass in the first place. Although, that’s a bit of an over-reaction on my part. He does conclude with merely feeling conflicted and unsure about what happened, and that is certainly a reasonable response. It’s hard to know where to draw these lines. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/8 "2015-01-07T21:24:08Z")
I am torn between telling him “I feel your pain” and “Lighten up, Francis”. Excrement occurs, whether your kids are Asian or not. People don’t always automatically assume they’re yours if they are a different race from you - but who cares? I would have thought he would have developed a thicker hide if he has been their father for sixteen years. It’s a shame that one of the daughters almost cried, but she’s a teenager. I wonder if he actually saw a badge from this alleged Homeland Security guy. Maybe it was, maybe he was just a passing nut. > [@](#): > > “What a beautiful family you have there,” would have been perfectly polite but still opened the door. Would not be a good idea with me, unless you got twenty minutes to spare looking at pictures and hearing a detailed account of every wonderful thing my kids have done for the last twenty years or so. Did I mention that my daughter just landed a job in her degree field? Let me show you a few Christmas pictures. That’s my son on the left - he is a decorated war veteran, you know… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/9 "2015-01-07T21:27:39Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Huh, I’d never thought I’d see a post from an American conservative complaining about a case of racial profiling. We conservatives are generally very aware of the distinction between private actors and government action. “Racial profiling,” as the term is generally used in public discourse, refers to actions under color of law or government power. A person acting as a private citizen who “racially profiles” doesn’t really raise the same kinds of concerns as a police officer who uses his badge or overhead lights to racially profile. > [@](#): > > My view is that the event was quite unfortunate and probably ruined his day with his daughters. However, the agent didn’t seem to be on a power trip so it stopped right there. Change a few things around and things could’ve ended MUCH worse. I agree. The man didn’t identify himself as an agent; he only disclosed his employer after Gates sought him out and even then never claimed he was any kind of an agent; he could work for Homeland Security as a graphic designer, for all we know. I’m just trying to get a sense of where “rude” stops and “legitimate concern” begins. ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/10 "2015-01-07T21:31:55Z")
There was an item in our local police log a few months ago. It started, “A caller reported an older man asking the ages of children at the town playground.” I immediately guessed what was happening from just that sentence. The next sentence confirmed my guess: “An officer questioned the man and determined that he was a grandfather at the playground with his grandchildren.” This guy took his grandchildren to the playground and while they were playing tried to initiate a conversation with another adult. “How old are your children?” A perfectly normal thing to ask and the person called the cops. As soon as the man in Gates’s story claimed to be a Homeland Security agent Gates should have asked to see ID. You don’t invoke your position as any sort of law enforcement officer without properly identifying yourself as such, which means showing a badge or other evidence of your position. Given that he apparently didn’t properly identify himself, I assume that he was lying and then it’s a very different story. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/11 "2015-01-07T21:34:56Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Let’s see here, we have: > > 1. a professional photographer (probably obvious by his equipment) > 2. an unusual posing session (in my family, it’s “line up and click” not 15 minutes of posing.) > 3. two under-age girls of a different race than the photographer 1. smiling and hugging 2. In public 3. In broad daylight It just seems so very unlikely to me that true victimization happens this way. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/12 "2015-01-07T21:40:10Z")
It’s possible that this is less about race and more about gender. I’ve heard stories of men, in general, being looked at warily if they’re taking photos of children. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/13 "2015-01-07T22:03:21Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > 1. smiling and hugging > 2. In public > 3. In broad daylight > > It just seems so very unlikely to me that true victimization happens this way. The photographer who wrote the original story described the girls as “ambivalent teens who barely put up with their dad’s ongoing photography project.” So it’s quite likely that the smiling and hugging were at least partly forced. But also think about how the original story compares to these: A girl was kidnapped, forced to call her kidnapper “Daddy” and was rescued because someone saw them at a truck stop and called the police. [http://www.13abc.com/story/20718710/life-after-human-trafficking](http://www.13abc.com/story/20718710/life-after-human-trafficking) Another girl also kidnapped and forced into prostitution, was alone in a diner. She told her story after a diner worker felt like something was wrong and started a conversation. (Though she left before the worker could get her any help). [15-Year-Old Says She Was Kidnapped, Forced Into Prostitution](http://www.wave3.com/story/2607128/15-year-old-says-she-was-kidnapped-forced-into-prostitution) All things considered, I’d rather see headlines that say “I was mildly inconvenienced by a concerned officer” than to read “Officers ignore sexually exploited girls because they didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/14 "2015-01-07T22:04:18Z")
Unless the girls exhibited some sign of distress, I’d say MYOB. As a professional, the HS guy should have been able to sit back and observe (not perv!) to see if there was any evidence the girls were under duress. If not, MYOB. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/15 "2015-01-07T22:08:09Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > All things considered, I’d rather see headlines that say “I was mildly inconvenienced by a concerned officer” than to read “Officers ignore sexually exploited girls because they didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.” Funny…black people don’t feel that way about “stop-and-frisk” policies. But you think men should just accept a general suspicion of their motives and intrusive questioning by strangers whenever they are seen to interact with young girls? ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/16 "2015-01-07T22:17:26Z")
Not to “diva up” **Bricker** ’s thread, but something happened yesterday that makes me wonder. My SO was in line at checkout line in store - I was looking at something off to the side. A couple was behind her - woman in control of the shopping cart. I came back (from being just off to the side) with my hands clearly empty and tried to stand behind my sweetie when the line moved up a bit. As soon as it did, the woman behind moved her cart up to close off the gap. This happened 2 more times. Finally I was able to hop in behind, whereupon the woman said aloud “He just cut in line! :eek:” Pretty ordinary, huh? As I thought about it later, I wonder. I clearly had no groceries. The kicker, of course, is that I am a 6"3" brown-skinned American Indian and my SO is a 5’ blonde white lady. I think this was at least unconscious racism on her part. At any rate, it is something that I as a minority have to deal with out in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/17 "2015-01-07T22:27:37Z")
I realize that F.O. & MYOB could be construed as inflammatory when kicked back at Racists… So, a simple rule for people to follow: “If no Distress, Reassess.” Because sometimes, beautiful landscapes aren’t painted with one can of paint and a Sherwin-Williams roller brush… ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/18 "2015-01-07T22:34:13Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > I came back (from being just off to the side) with my hands clearly empty and tried to stand behind my sweetie when the line moved up a bit. As soon as it did, the woman behind moved her cart up to close off the gap. This happened 2 more times. Finally I was able to hop in behind, whereupon the woman said aloud “He just cut in line! :eek:” When she started to advance her cart the first time, you should have given a softly-warding hand gesture and said, “excuse me, I’m with her…” The fact that you waited around without expressing yourself–as she behaved according to the assumption that you were not in line–puts at least some of this on you. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/19 "2015-01-07T22:36:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m just trying to get a sense of where “rude” stops and “legitimate concern” begins. The measures for these are different. It’s perfectly possible that an action can be both rude and legitimately concerned. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/20 "2015-01-07T22:52:23Z")
I’m really trying to figure out how Concerned Citizen thought the situation would have played out if the girls were not “okay”. Concerned Citizen: “I would be remiss if I didn’t ask if you were okay.” Girls: “OH HELP US, MISTER! THIS GUY HAS HIS CAMERA AIMED ON US AND WE’RE UNABLE TO RUN AWAY FROM HIM OR SCREAM FOR HELP!!” Seriously though, I don’t know how long Concerned Citizen had been standing there, but it seems to me if he was actually there for 15 minutes, he would have acquired enough information to know that while it wasn’t a typical family point-and-click photo session, the girls weren’t entrained by a creepy dude who’d just strolled up from off the beach. And he would have also seen that there was nothing sordid or creepy about their poses to indicate that the photographer’s intentions were sordid or creepy. Unless the girls were so “ambivalent” about being photographed that they were in visible distress, I don’t know why the guy didn’t assume the whole thing wasn’t a professional modeling shoot. That’s what I would have assumed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258.md?page=2)