# Intrusive? Racist? Useful concern? All of the above? (Stranger questions interracial family photos) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 7, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258 "2015-01-07T20:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/41 "2015-01-08T16:15:41Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Not to “diva up” **Bricker** ’s thread, but something happened yesterday that makes me wonder. My SO was in line at checkout line in store - I was looking at something off to the side. A couple was behind her - woman in control of the shopping cart. I came back (from being just off to the side) with my hands clearly empty and tried to stand behind my sweetie when the line moved up a bit. As soon as it did, the woman behind moved her cart up to close off the gap. This happened 2 more times. Finally I was able to hop in behind, whereupon the woman said aloud “He just cut in line! :eek:” > > Pretty ordinary, huh? As I thought about it later, I wonder. I clearly had no groceries. The kicker, of course, is that I am a 6"3" brown-skinned American Indian and my SO is a 5’ blonde white lady. I think this was at least unconscious racism on her part. At any rate, it is something that I as a minority have to deal with out in the world. I’d say, since you gave absolutely no indication you and your SO were together, she just thought you were some jerk cutting in line. I don’t see any racism here at all. > [@bobot](#): > > Quiting from quoted article:" … the girls stood in their usual spot against the railing at the back of the boat. … > Totally engaged with the scene in front of me, I jumped when a man came up beside me and said to my daughters: “I would be remiss if I didn’t ask if you were okay.” > > I don’t get it. The man was on the boat with them? > If the man really was Homeland Security, wouldn’t he have spoken directly to the adult, instead? > My uninformed speculation is that if this actually happened, the man wasn’t an agent, but was a weird, tactless racist. And he was either on someone else’s boat, or they were all on a larger, ferry type boat. > Strange story. You quoted from the article but apparently missed the first nine words that say: > [@](#): > > After my family arrives on the **Cape May ferry** Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/42 "2015-01-08T17:07:05Z")
I would be thinking real hard about what IO was going to do next if it was a real bad guy. Can I actually do anything? Getting strangers to help in a restricted space, wait, restricted space? Maybe I should just watch a bit until I reach a place I can get help because I just might not be able to control the situation. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/43 "2015-01-08T17:10:17Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > He could have just hung about till one of the girls said, “Dad, aren’t we done yet?” > > Pretty obvious, simple and most unobtrusive way to allay his misplaced fear/paranoia. THAT’s what a Homeland Security person would do first, I suspect. Or any thinking person, for that matter. Yes, this is what I was going to say. It’s not _completely terrible_ to have wondered, but there was _far_ from enough reason for suspicion to actually interrupt them. Just stand nearby and listen. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/44 "2015-01-08T17:42:48Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Frankly, I’m outraged that the photographer/writer can have his head shoved so far up his ass in the first place. I guess I’m misunderstanding. You’re outraged that someone could be upset that someone thinks it’s wrong that he is taking vacation pictures of his own daughters like he has for fourteen years with no problem? He should have to always be assessing that they are different races and what will people think?! Again, I must be reading your comments wrong. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/45 "2015-01-08T18:16:11Z")
I showed this page to my wife yesterday and we both were completely and totally on the fence about it. We both came to the conclusion that it is simply a sad commentary on society that something innocent was tainted. As others have indicated, this helps bring into sharper focus the problem with profiling in general. On the one hand, I would be upset if I were the photographer (and as a photographer, I am quite familiar with spending 15 minutes fiddling with settings and waiting for light and good expressions to coincide). He was enjoying time with his family and some jerk came and judged him as a creepy dude. Some years ago I remember a friend telling me how one day he was sitting at a bus stop with his 16yo daughter when some stranger came up to him and said “Don’t you think you are a little too old for her?” He just about exploded as he shouted at the man “She’s my daughter!” It’s stuff like this that makes me self conscious when I am out alone with my own grown daughter. On the other hand, I think that if the stranger was truly who he said he was, I am happy that he checked the situation. I remember one single time when I spoke to strangers about their behavior: I was at the Vietnam War Memorial in DC and some tourists were laughing, carrying on, and filming video of others visiting. I approached them and quietly explained the solemn character of the place, as the signs indicate, and asked them to respect others. I’m certain that they must have called me a jerk after I left, but I think I would do it again in the same circumstances. Nobody likes being corrected by a stranger–I don’t think there is a good way to approach someone in situations like these. I do question whether the stranger was really who he claimed to be. That said, the photo session would definitely raise a few eyebrows almost anywhere, and some may ask questions. One of the \>2K comments on the story was from a man who claimed to be a LEO who said that if it were him (in the role of the stranger) he would have been even more direct with the photographer, even hinting that argument from the photog might land him in a jail cell. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/46 "2015-01-08T18:29:59Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > That said, the photo session would definitely raise a few eyebrows almost anywhere, and some may ask questions. I really don’t get this no matter how hard I try. If I stumbled upon a photographer snapping pics of two non-distressed teenaged girls outdoors for a protracted period of time, my first assumption would be that they were professional models. Especially if their race differed from the man’s (as it did in this case). My eyebrows would only raise if the girls looked unhappy, annoyed, or frightened, or if they were provocatively dressed. Otherwise I wouldn’t give them another thought. What is it about this photo session that is so bizarre that it warrants concern? ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/47 "2015-01-08T19:11:37Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I really don’t get this no matter how hard I try. If I stumbled upon a photographer snapping pics of two non-distressed teenaged girls outdoors for a protracted period of time, my first assumption would be that they were professional models. Especially if their race differed from the man’s (as it did in this case). > > My eyebrows would only raise if the girls looked unhappy, annoyed, or frightened, or if they were provocatively dressed. Otherwise I wouldn’t give them another thought. > > What is it about this photo session that is so bizarre that it warrants concern? I’m glad that would be your response. I think the stranger was seeing ghosts and not very observant of behavior–all the more reason why I question his authority. I made the statement you questioned because I can easily imagine some busybodies getting concerned observing a man photographing two young women–whenever I am in public doing a photo shoot, I have cards ready in case someone comes asking what I’m doing. I expect people to ask what is going on. But then I stop and say what you said: it wouldn’t register on my radar at all if I saw that man with his daughters. I might even ask him about his equipment and discuss the lighting. As an aside, I’m sure that the girls were only smiling in the photo because that is what he was working 15 minutes to get–they were probably griping and fidgeting the rest of the time. Nevertheless, I’m also sure it would be pretty obvious that it was normal teenager whining and fidgeting, with no bad undertones. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/48 "2015-01-08T19:39:59Z")
I think the writer should have just laughed it off. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/49 "2015-01-08T19:44:01Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Is it “of course, because the girls are Asian” or more just like “dude is awkwardly taking photos of two teenaged girls”? > > There’s been no shortage of young women who have been kidnapped for years [relatively] lately. Not sure why asking some teenagers if they are ok has a racial bent to it. This was my take as well. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/50 "2015-01-08T19:50:48Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I guess I’m misunderstanding. You’re outraged that someone could be upset that someone thinks it’s wrong that he is taking vacation pictures of his own daughters like he has for fourteen years with no problem? He should have to always be assessing that they are different races and what will people think?! Again, I must be reading your comments wrong. See, I don’t think race is such a big deal. The photographer himself, in his own article, says that it was 15 minutes of posing and that the girls were putting up with it. This is not just a typical family shot of happy smiling people. This is a professional photographer trying to get the perfect with two less-than-happy girls. My “outrage” (which I qualified in the rest of the paragraph that wasn’t quoted) is that he can’t understand how this might look to other people, and that his girls are so sheltered from reality that burst into tears at the very idea of sex trafficking. I thought I made a post yesterday providing some links to real sex trafficking cases and unfortunately I don’t see it today. You can go find them, though. Just search “kidnapped forced prostitution” on Google and you’ll find an entire page of links with real news stories on the issue. I found and linked to two of them who were rescued because a stranger decided to act on their hunch and butt in. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/51 "2015-01-08T20:05:10Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > OK, let’s dial it back from stop-and-frisk a bit. How about the constant low-level suspicion that some black folks complain about being subjected to? Things like: > > -women holding tighter to their purses or locking their car doors when a black man is near by > > -[clerks surreptitiously following black people around the store to make sure they aren’t stealing anything](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q32NhDy4ZQg) > > Just as the vast majority of black people are not criminals, the vast majority of men who take photos of other-raced girls in public are not predators; it’s not surprising that upstanding persons in both categories would grow agitated when faced with preemptive suspicion. I don’t see the similarity here either. I’m not saying we stop every family taking pictures or every Asian family. I am saying that 1. he was a professional photographer and so on. ::sigh:: I’ve already posted it. And the original article already said it himself in the first paragraph: “ambivalent teens who barely put up with their dad’s ongoing photography project.” But as far as preemptive suspicion goes… Show me statistics that black people are less likely to commit violent crimes and robberies. Oh, but those statistics are skewed right? Because we only arrest the black people, right? Because we’re all racist. So the proof that we’re racist is that we’re racist. OK. Guilty as charged. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/52 "2015-01-08T20:19:36Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Huh, I’d never thought I’d see a post from an American conservative complaining about a case of racial profiling. We are all racist that’s why we don’t complain about racial profiling. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/53 "2015-01-08T20:54:39Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > It’s possible that this is less about race and more about gender. I’ve heard stories of men, in general, being looked at warily if they’re taking photos of children. Possible? I’d give you 100-1 odds that if this guy’s wife was taking the pictures, our concerned DHS employee wouldn’t have given it a second glance. Just one more instance of a man being profiled as a kiddy diddler for doing nothing more than choosing to interact with a young female person. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/54 "2015-01-08T21:47:55Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Possible? I’d give you 100-1 odds that if this guy’s wife was taking the pictures, our concerned DHS employee wouldn’t have given it a second glance. > > Just one more instance of a man being profiled as a kiddy diddler for doing nothing more than choosing to interact with a young female person. I think this is exactly right. Only, it doesn’t necessarily even have to be a young FEMALE person. I have spent a large chunk of my life teaching at the elementary level (I’m male). I get along really well with kids. I am INCREDIBLY careful outside of school to engage with kids only from a distance, only when a parent is around, only when it is abundantly clear that no one is going to assume that I am a child molester. My (grown) son is also really good with kids, and he does the same thing. My wife and my grown daughter, on the contrary, think nothing of engaging kids at almost any time, on almost any level. Fair? No. Necessary? Yes. It’s how things are. I live with it, but it stinks. In the news item, the racial difference probably didn’t help, but I have no doubt that the photographer’s being male was much more significant. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/55 "2015-01-08T22:18:12Z")
Similar story: [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328828/A-white-dad-suspected-kidnapping-biracial-daughters-following-family-trip-Walmart.html](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328828/A-white-dad-suspected-kidnapping-biracial-daughters-following-family-trip-Walmart.html) I can understand being upset by this, but at the same time I think the safety of children outweighs some hurt feelings and better someone gets offended than some children are kidnapped. My wife is a darker skinned Latina and all our children look completely white with blue eyes and one with blonde hair and they literally look nothing like her they are my clones I joke because they really seem to have no features from my wife. If something similar happened to my wife it would be annoying to say the least but I wouldn’t boycott the store, the person’s heart was in the right place. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/56 "2015-01-08T23:25:04Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > … > You quoted from the article but apparently missed the first nine words… Thank you for the clarification. My new, more informed position is: There’s no way that guy, on the ferry with them, was Homeland Security. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/57 "2015-01-09T01:29:38Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Similar story: > > [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328828/A-white-dad-suspected-kidnapping-biracial-daughters-following-family-trip-Walmart.html](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328828/A-white-dad-suspected-kidnapping-biracial-daughters-following-family-trip-Walmart.html) > > I can understand being upset by this, but at the same time I think the safety of children outweighs some hurt feelings and better someone gets offended than some children are kidnapped. My wife is a darker skinned Latina and all our children look completely white with blue eyes and one with blonde hair and they literally look nothing like her they are my clones I joke because they really seem to have no features from my wife. I disagree because the point of both the stores linked in the OP and by you, the only factor which seemed to have sparked a concern is the difference between the face of the parent and the child. The number of children kidnapped by strangers is so infinitely small that there simply isn’t anyway of finding them by random intrusive checks on families in public. To only do for for biracial families is insulting. With the rate of domestic violence higher than stranger kidnapping, we would be better off asking random strangers if they are OK and if their spouse or boyfriend/girlfriend isn’t beating them at home. My irrelevant but funny story. My wife is Taiwanese and our daughter looks a little more Western and our son a little less so. A while back, I took them, and a neighbor’s girl on a bike ride to the park. On the way back one woman looked at my daughter, looked up at me and smiled. Obviously she recognized that my daughter is biracial and got the connection. Same thing when my son went by. Then when the neighbor’s girl passed by, she got this really puzzled look on her face, looked up at me, back down to this thoroughly Taiwanse girl, back to me and shook her head. It didn’t compute. I came home and told my wife that there’s a woman who thinks she (my wife) cheated on me. . . ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/58 "2015-01-09T10:59:57Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > I’d say, since you gave absolutely no indication you and your SO were together, she just thought you were some jerk cutting in line. I don’t see any racism here at all. I’d say, that since he was joining her in the line, that there was an obvious indication that he and his SO were together. That is absolutely what I would have assumed. But then, in this part of the world mixed couples are not unusual. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/59 "2015-01-09T14:41:22Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Similar story: > > [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328828/A-white-dad-suspected-kidnapping-biracial-daughters-following-family-trip-Walmart.html](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328828/A-white-dad-suspected-kidnapping-biracial-daughters-following-family-trip-Walmart.html) > > I can understand being upset by this, but at the same time I think the safety of children outweighs some hurt feelings and better someone gets offended than some children are kidnapped. how often are kids abducted by strangers where you think it’s justified to harass people you’ve never met because you think “something doesn’t look right?” This “won’t someone PLEASE think of the CHILDREN!” is doing us no favors. As a society we’ve moved to a mindset of guilty until proven innocent. > [@](#): > > My wife is a darker skinned Latina and all our children look completely white with blue eyes and one with blonde hair and they literally look nothing like her they are my clones I joke because they really seem to have no features from my wife. If something similar happened to my wife it would be annoying to say the least but I wouldn’t boycott the store, the person’s heart was in the right place. the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Having police sent out and officers interrogating the kids because of some pathetic busybody isn’t “offending” the parents, it’s harassment and totally unjustifiable. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258/60 "2015-01-09T14:50:58Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > The number of children kidnapped by strangers is so infinitely small that there simply isn’t anyway of finding them by random intrusive checks on families in public. To only do for for biracial families is insulting. Especially since it implies that kidnappings are more likely to be interracial than not. I would think the opposite would be the case. Would make more sense to hone in on other factors. I think it’s healthy to talk about the harm in acting on stupid assumptions, even if the harm is relatively minor. If we don’t, we’ll just continue to think and act in stupid ways and that is not helping anybody. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/intrusive-racist-useful-concern-all-of-the-above-stranger-questions-interracial-family-photos/709258.md?page=4)