# Inuit, Scurvy and Vitamin C **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 26, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789 "2013-04-26T19:57:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GRobLewis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5e925/32.png) [@GRobLewis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GRobLewis)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/1 "2013-04-26T19:57:48Z")
Good discussion, but you failed to make clear one essential piece of the puzzle: if you don’t eat carbohydrates, you don’t _need_ much vitamin C. Stefansson’s 1928 experiment should have given us a clue: it’s excessive carbohydrates that cause the “diseases of civilization” (obesity, heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, cancer), not excessive fat. Award-winning science writer Gary Taubes explains it all in his book _Good Calories, Bad Calories_. A revelation. * * * LINK TO COLUMN: [Traditionally Eskimos ate only meat and fish. Why didn’t they get scurvy? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2374/traditionally-eskimos-ate-only-meat-and-fish-why-didnt-they-get-scurvy) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/2 "2013-04-26T20:13:30Z")
IIRC, in that book, Taubes says that’s it’s unknown why meat eaters don’t need supplementary Vitamin C, but that one reason could be that \*maybe \*eating carbohydrates increases the need for Vitamin C. He is clear that he is only making a guess, and that there could be any number of reasons why, and that it is a topic worthy of research. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/3 "2013-04-26T20:26:05Z")
Column [here](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2374/traditionally-eskimos-ate-only-meat-and-fish-why-didnt-they-get-scurvy). ---
**Author:** ![GRobLewis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5e925/32.png) [@GRobLewis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GRobLewis)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/4 "2013-04-26T21:10:30Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > IIRC, in that book, Taubes says that’s it’s unknown why meat eaters don’t need supplementary Vitamin C, but that one reason could be that \*maybe \*eating carbohydrates increases the need for Vitamin C. He is clear that he is only making a guess, and that there could be any number of reasons why, and that it is a topic worthy of research. Thanks for the input. I just checked the book and found this: > [@](#): > > The vitamin-C molecule is similar in configuration to glucose and other sugars in the body. It is shuttled from the bloodstream into the cells by the same insulin-dependent transport system used by glucose. Glucose and vitamin-C compete in this cellular-uptake process, like strangers trying to flag down the same taxicab simultaneously. Because glucose is greatly favored in the contest, the uptake of vitamin C by cells is “globally inhibited” when blood-sugar levels are elevated.…Glucose also impairs the reabsorption of vitamin C by the kidney, and so, the higher the blood sugar, the more vitamin C will be lost in the urine. Bottom line, says Taubes: dietary carbohydrates both flush vitamin C out of the system and inhibit the use of whatever remains. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/5 "2013-04-26T22:00:24Z")
I read about some people who were shipwrecked and had no fruits or vegetables for a couple months until their rescue, and they had no evidence of scurvy. Whenever they trapped or caught an animal (mostly fish or turtles), they ate everything that was edible, including the eyeballs which are the densest repository of vitamin C in the body. The Inuit probably do that too. ---
**Author:** ![wreckage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@wreckage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wreckage)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/6 "2013-04-28T21:48:27Z")
Oh, no… Not you too, Cecil. " …just like you and I". That should be “you and me.”. Why is the world so intent on removing the word ‘me’ from the English language? I blame over-correction in generations past. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/7 "2013-04-29T09:15:07Z")
> [@wreckage](#): > > Oh, no… Not you too, Cecil. > " …just like you and I". That should be “you and me.”. Why is the world so intent on removing the word ‘me’ from the English language? I blame over-correction in generations past. Are you _ **sure** _ about that? :dubious: Cite, please. IIRC, (and I’m pretty sure that I do) I was taught that “\_\_\_\_ and I” was the correct ‘grammatical structure’, as opposed to “\_\_\_\_ and me”. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/8 "2013-04-29T13:33:26Z")
> [@wreckage](#): > > Oh, no… Not you too, Cecil. > " …just like you and I". That should be “you and me.”. Why is the world so intent on removing the word ‘me’ from the English language? I blame over-correction in generations past. Although I understand your point --it grates on my nerves whenever someone says something like “The actor gave pictures to he and I” – Cecil is correct. The complete sentence is: > [@Cece](#): > > Now it’s academic — most arctic natives live in villages and get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice, just like you and I. I can’t recall the name of the case/form/whatever, but you can see that the phrase “you and I” is serving as the subject of a clause so “I” is the correct word to use. Think of it this way: you wouldn’t say “Most arctic natives live in villages and get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice, just like you and me do.” RR ---
**Author:** ![wreckage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f0a364/32.png) [@wreckage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wreckage)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/9 "2013-04-29T21:38:01Z")
> [@JBDivmstr](#): > > Are you _ **sure** _ about that? :dubious: > > Cite, please. > > IIRC, (and I’m pretty sure that I do) I was taught that “\_\_\_\_ and I” was the correct ‘grammatical structure’, as opposed to “\_\_\_\_ and me”. 😕 [http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w026.html](http://www.betterwritingskills.com/tip-w026.html) 'Nuff said… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_Astronaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bad\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/10 "2013-04-29T22:13:58Z")
> [@RiverRunner](#): > > Although I understand your point --it grates on my nerves whenever someone says something like “The actor gave pictures to he and I” – Cecil is correct. The complete sentence is: > > I can’t recall the name of the case/form/whatever, but you can see that the phrase “you and I” is serving as the subject of a clause so “I” is the correct word to use. Think of it this way: you wouldn’t say “Most arctic natives live in villages and get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice, just like you and me do.” > > RR Except Cecil’s sentence does not include the word “do”. If he was talking about only himself, the correct form would be “Most arctic natives live in villages and get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice, just like me.” Obviously “just like I” would never be correct. I would agree that the best way to fix what Cecil wrote would be to add “do” at the end of his sentence. Not only does it fix the grammar issue, it removes any ambiguity about what “just like” refers to (the sentence ending “just like me” above could mean that the speaker is juice). ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/11 "2013-04-30T00:32:25Z")
Perhaps our correspondent is getting confused between “like” and “than”. For example, “They are more skilled than you and I” is correct, but “They are skilled, like you and me” is correct. I was confused myself until I did a bit of research and remembered that it’s “than” to which this rule applies, not “like”. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![MassMatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/94ad74/32.png) [@MassMatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MassMatt)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/12 "2013-04-30T03:54:23Z")
OMG all this nonsense about syntax and grammar. Much bigger issues–1) How do we know the Inuit/Eskimo didn’t suffer from scurvy? Self reporting? Where is the science/evidence? Huge unexamined assumption. That they “survived” means only that they lived long enough to reproduce. Now I think they did better than this, and the reason why is in their diet, no it’s not just meat, it’s seal liver and blubber; item 2) What is the dietary value not of things the inuit fed their dogs but of what they ATE, specifically seal and seal liver (yes, raw)? ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/13 "2013-04-30T15:21:20Z")
The idea that the Inuit consume only animal products is largely a myth. The reality is that the Inuit do consume a wide variety of plants, as documented by Anore Jones in her book “Plants That We Eat.” She lived among the Alaskan Inupiat for 19 years and she documented enough plant consumption to fill a 240-page book. I wasn’t able to find the post with the search tool, but I do recall that we had a member here 10-12 years ago whose username was something like **igloorex** who was Inuit and he mentioned that the Inuit were very careful to harvest and consume certain plants in order to avoid scurvy. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/14 "2013-04-30T16:02:07Z")
Here’s a paragraph from Weston A. Price’s “Nutrition and Physical Degeneration” that describes one way the Eskimos obtained their Vitamin C: > **[Nutrition and Physical Degeneration](http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200251h.html#ch5)** > [@](#): > > They lived in a country in which grizzly bears were common. Their pelts were highly prized and they captured many of them with baited pitfalls. Their knowledge of the use of different organs and tissues of the animals for providing a defense against certain of the affections of the body which we speak of as degenerative diseases was surprising. When I asked an old Indian, through an interpreter, why the Indians did not get scurvy he replied promptly that that was a white man’s disease. I asked whether it was possible for the Indians to get scurvy. He replied that it was, but said that the Indians know how to prevent it and the white man does not. When asked why he did not tell the white man how, his reply was that the white man knew too much to ask the Indian anything. I then asked him if he would tell me. He said he would if the chief said he might. He went to see the chief and returned in about an hour, saying that the chief said he could tell me because I was a friend of the Indians and had come to tell the Indians not to eat the food in the white man’s store. He took me by the hand and led me to a log where we both sat down. He then described how when the Indian kills a moose he opens it up and at the back of the moose just above the kidney there are what he described as two small balls in the fat. These he said the Indian would take and cut up into as many pieces as there were little and big Indians in the family and each one would eat his piece. They would eat also the walls of the second stomach. By eating these parts of the animal the Indians would keep free from scurvy, which is due to the lack of vitamin C. The Indians were getting vitamin C from the adrenal glands and organs. Modern science has very recently discovered that the adrenal glands are the richest sources of vitamin C in all animal or plant tissues. We found these Indians most cooperative in aiding us. We, of course, had taken presents that we thought would be appreciated by them, and we had no difficulty in making measurements and photographs, nor, indeed, in making a detailed study of the condition of each tooth in the dental arches. I obtained samples of saliva, and of their foods for chemical analysis. A typical Indian family in the big timber forests in shown in Fig. 15. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/15 "2013-04-30T19:26:11Z")
> [@wreckage](#): > > Oh, no… Not you too, Cecil. > " …just like you and I". That should be “you and me.”. Why is the world so intent on removing the word ‘me’ from the English language? I blame over-correction in generations past. > [@Bad\_Astronaut](#): > > Except Cecil’s sentence does not include the word “do”. If he was talking about only himself, the correct form would be “Most arctic natives live in villages and get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice, just like me.” Obviously “just like I” would never be correct. Reading up on this, it is an ambiguous case. Apparently there is much debate, largely because of interpretation of the intent of the sentence and the difference of colloquilism vs standard usage. According to [this page](http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/like-versus-as.aspx): > [@](#): > > **When to Use _Like_, When to Use _As_** > > The proper way to differentiate between _like_ and _as_ is to use _like_ when no verb follows (2). For example, _Squiggly throws like a raccoon_ or _It acted just like my computer_. Notice that when I use\* like\*, the words that come after are generally simple. _A raccoon_ and _my computer_ are the objects of the preposition. > > If the clause that comes next includes a verb, then you should use _as_. For example, _Squiggly throws as if he were a raccoon_ or _It acted just as I would expect my computer to behave_. Notice that when I use _as_, the words that come after tend to be more complex. > > You generally hear _like_ used in everyday speech, so that helps me remember that _like_ is the simpler word—or at least it is followed by simpler words. _As_ sounds stuffier and is followed by a more complex clause that contains a verb. Regarding Cecil’s sentence, he said: > [@](#): > > Now it’s academic — most arctic natives live in villages and get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice, just like you and I. A formalist may interpret that sentence to mean “…just like you and I [do]”, with the understood verb do at the end, and thus use the verb rule of “you and _I_” as the subject of the sentence. However, if one takes _like_ as a preposition in that sentence, then the proper form would be “… just like you and _me_”. It appears Cecil was treating it as a subordinate clause with the understood verb “do”. You could replace “like” in Cecil’s sentence with “the way”: “… just _the way_ you and I [do].” In that form, “… just the way… me” does not make sense. Nor does “just he way I”. In that construction, one **requires** a verb for the clause, i.e. the verb do. Therefore, in that construction, one should use _I_. A preposition does not appear to really work in that sentence form. Colloquially, everyone would understand “just like me”, so they should understand “just like you and me”. “Just as you and I [do]” would be more formally correct in that instance". “Just like” appears to be being used as a conjunction, not a preposition. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/16 "2013-05-01T23:42:25Z")
“I” is the subjective form. “Me” is the objective form. In the sentence, “Most arctic natives get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice,” the subject is “arctic natives” and the object is “OJ and Juicy Juice.” Therefore, “Most arctic natives get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice, just like I” implies that I am similar to the arctic natives. “Most arctic natives get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice, just like me” implies that I am similar to OJ and Juicy Juice. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/17 "2013-05-02T14:39:53Z")
To be more specific, the direct object is “vitamin C” and the object of the prepositional phrase is “OJ and Juicy Juice.” since “just like me” immediately follows the prepositional phrase and not the direct object, then that’s what it modifies. (I’m not sure how I would interpret “Most arctic natives get their vitamin C, just like me, from OJ and Juicy Juice.”) “Just like I,” though, would modify the subject in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inuit-scurvy-and-vitamin-c/656789/18 "2013-05-06T18:10:15Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > Therefore, “Most arctic natives get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice, just like I” implies that I am similar to the arctic natives. “Most arctic natives get their vitamin C from OJ and Juicy Juice, just like me” implies that I am similar to OJ and Juicy Juice. No, it doesn’t, if “like” is understood to be a preposition here. I believe Irishman has the best take on the problem so far. Powers &8^]