# Invade Puerto Rico! NOW!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660 "2017-10-12T17:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/21 "2017-10-12T20:00:59Z")
My guess is that the Trump administration WILL send in troops—but not until a couple of hundred thousand Puerto Ricans have died from preventable water-borne diseases and from violence inspired by severe lack of basic resources. When the headlines are filled with “mass slaughter of Puerto Ricans by Puerto Ricans, over fuel and food” stories, then Trump can declare that the island must be pacified via martial law, with land being confiscated, Puerto Ricans put into camps, etc. I’d finger Bannon and Stephen Miller as the authors of the plot, with useful advice coming via Vlad whenever they can communicate privately. The Puerto Rico endeavor will be a valuable and instructive dry run, for the project of eventually ending that pesky US rule of law thing, altogether. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/22 "2017-10-12T20:02:45Z")
If only we had some military personnel who speak Spanish! Of course, “agua” and “comida” is going to cover a lot of bases. Don’t even have to ask where the train station is, because it isn’t! \*Just now getting over the tv, veterans groups volunteers, picking up boxes of food and supplies and _carrying_ them to people who have no roads! That’s the flag I pledge allegiance to! That’s _my_ America! You got a better one? No. You don’t. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/23 "2017-10-12T20:04:36Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > There was a [Navy base](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_Roads_Naval_Station) there at one point, mostly closed at the request of the Puerto Ricans. It’s now a small Army base, if I understand Wikipedia correctly. Ivylad (former submariner) and I wondered if having an open Navy base during the hurricane would have allowed aid to be rendered more quickly. Its a Navy base? So, it has like, docks? That could be handy. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/24 "2017-10-12T22:31:38Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Got as many votes in PR as he has in New York City. Just another distraction technique from this seemingly endless run of policy failures. In a semi-bizarre twist, Puerto Ricans cannot vote in presidential elections, but if they move to one of the fifty states, they can. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/25 "2017-10-12T22:42:13Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > In a semi-bizarre twist, Puerto Ricans cannot vote in presidential elections, but if they move to one of the fifty states, they can. Emphasis added. Well, mystery solved! No wonder he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about them! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/26 "2017-10-12T22:46:11Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > In a semi-bizarre twist, Puerto Ricans cannot vote in presidential elections, but if they move to one of the fifty states, they can. Like, to escape a horrible natural disaster and a non-recovery-effort? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/27 "2017-10-12T23:00:32Z")
We “invaded” Puerto Rico right after the hurricane. ([Cite](https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1330501/dod-accelerates-hurricane-relief-response-efforts-in-puerto-rico/)) Performing Defense Support to Civil Authorities is right there in NORTHCOM’s mission statement ([Cite with my underline added](http://www.northcom.mil/About-USNORTHCOM/)) - “USNORTHCOM partners to conduct homeland defense, civil support and security cooperation to defend and secure the United States and its interests.” They “invaded” areas hit by Hurricane Irma (including in CONUS) and then added operations in areas affected by Maria (which included areas like the Virgin Islands.) DOD didn’t even need to invade. The Puerto Rico National Guard (authorized strength 8,400) was already “occupying” the area and was involved in the territory level planning to respond prior to landfall of the hurricane. Puerto Rico also has a territorial militia available, the Puerto Rico State Guard, that doesn’t share the NG’s territory/federal dual status. As of last week ([05OCT17](https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1335362/over-11000-dod-personnel-aid-puerto-rico-hurricane-relief-efforts/)) over 11,000 troops had been deployed to Puerto Rico with parts of the five Force Packages continuing to deploy. It was up to [13,229 DOD personnel](https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1338485/puerto-rico-response-continues-with-more-than-13000-personnel/) as of 10OCT. Those numbers don’t include the State Guard. It’s not clear if they count the NG troops mobilized by the Governor under territorial authority or only federal assets when listing DOD personnel. troops on the island are only a part of the total invovled though. [This story](http://www.northcom.mil/Newsroom/Article/1322233/jbsa-lackland-kelly-field-stands-up-isb-to-support-femas-hurricane-maria-relief/) about setting up an incident support base at JBSA Lackland-Kelly is one example of troops not counted but committed to important sustaining operations. There’s possible issues to rant about. The Governor wasn’t particularly aggressive in mobilizing the territorial forces (both NG and PRSG.) FEMA’s and/or the Governor’s estimates driving the initial request for support may have been bad, wrong, or both. ( **By law** in DSCA operations DOD supports civil authorities. DOD is not in charge of the effort and can’t just dictate missions or forces committed to those civil authorities.) Support for other US citizens during a period with high demand for support may have interfered with the speed and effectiveness of the response. Still the military has been responding, doing exactly the kinds of things that a couple weeks later suddenly sounds like a good idea. Some of those are issues for the after action review to improve performance for the next time. There may or may not be specific issues where committing further forces, taking into account the associated lag time to get them there and operating effectively, might make sense. It’s most certainly not a case of simply not committing significant military support. Puerto Rico is bad. Things could, and likely would, be much worse if the OP’s good idea wasn’t already happening. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/28 "2017-10-12T23:21:29Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > … > > As of last week ([05OCT17](https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1335362/over-11000-dod-personnel-aid-puerto-rico-hurricane-relief-efforts/)) over 11,000 troops had been deployed to Puerto Rico with parts of the five Force Packages continuing to deploy. It was up to [13,229 DOD personnel](https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1338485/puerto-rico-response-continues-with-more-than-13000-personnel/) as of 10OCT. Those numbers don’t include the State Guard. It’s not clear if they count the NG troops mobilized by the Governor under territorial authority or only federal assets when listing DOD personnel. troops on the island are only a part of the total invovled though. [This story](http://www.northcom.mil/Newsroom/Article/1322233/jbsa-lackland-kelly-field-stands-up-isb-to-support-femas-hurricane-maria-relief/) about setting up an incident support base at JBSA Lackland-Kelly is one example of troops not counted but committed to important sustaining operations. > > … > > Puerto Rico is bad. Things could, and likely would, be much worse if the OP’s good idea wasn’t already happening. Let’s not hand out the awards just yet. [U.S. response in Puerto Rico pales next to actions after Haiti quake (Sept 28, 2017)](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-responded-to-haiti-quake-more-forcefully-than-to-puerto-rico-disaster/2017/09/28/74fe9c02-a465-11e7-8cfe-d5b912fabc99_story.html?utm_term=.608b0e26a6e4) Emphasis added. > [@](#): > > After an earthquake shattered Haiti’s capital on Jan. 12, 2010, the U.S. military mobilized as if it were going to war. > > Before dawn the next morning, an Army unit was airborne, on its way to seize control of the main airport in Port-au-Prince. Within two days, the Pentagon had 8,000 American troops en route. Within two weeks, 33 U.S. military ships and 22,000 troops had arrived. More than 300 military helicopters buzzed overhead, delivering millions of pounds of food and water. > … > By contrast, eight days after Hurricane Maria ripped across neighboring Puerto Rico, just 4,400 service members were participating in federal operations to assist the devastated island, an Army general told reporters Thursday. In addition, about 1,000 Coast Guard members were aiding the efforts. About 40 U.S. military helicopters were helping to deliver food and water to the 3.4 million residents of the U.S. territory, along with 10 Coast Guard helicopters. > > Leaders of the humanitarian mission in Haiti said in interviews that they were dismayed by the relative lack of urgency and military muscle in the initial federal response to Puerto Rico’s catastrophe. > > “I think it’s a fair ask why we’re not seeing a similar command and response,” said retired Lt. Gen. P.K. “Ken” Keen, the three-star general who commanded the U.S. military effort in Haiti, where 200,000 people died by some estimates. “The morning after, the president said we were going to respond in Port-au-Prince . . . robustly and immediately, and that gave the whole government clarity of purpose.” > … > > Maj. Gen. James C. Witham, director of domestic operations for the National Guard Bureau, said that immediately after Maria’s landfall, Puerto Rico requested only communications equipment and fewer than 200 military police officers. By comparison, 17,567 guardsmen from 24 states were on duty in Florida a day after Hurricane Irma made landfall. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/29 "2017-10-12T23:23:43Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > In a semi-bizarre twist, Puerto Ricans cannot vote in presidential elections, but if they move to one of the fifty states, they can. And pay taxes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/30 "2017-10-12T23:33:01Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > In a semi-bizarre twist, Puerto Ricans cannot vote in presidential elections, but if they move to one of the fifty states, they can. What’s bizarre about that? The president is elected by the states, not by “the people”. Puerto Rico is not a state. Neither is Wash DC., and residents could not vote for president until the constitution was amended to allow them to do so (in 1961, with the passage of the 23rd amendment). The same applies to the other US Territories: US VI, Guam, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/31 "2017-10-12T23:42:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Maybe they should pull a Grand Fenwick, and declare war on the U.S. You stole my idea. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/32 "2017-10-13T00:32:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What’s bizarre about that? The president is elected by the states, not by “the people”. Puerto Rico is not a state. Neither is Wash DC., and residents could not vote for president until the constitution was amended to allow them to do so (in 1961, with the passage of the 23rd amendment). The same applies to the other US Territories: US VI, Guam, etc. Of course the people in one of your colonies aren’t allowed to vote. That’s one of the points of a colony. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/33 "2017-10-13T00:45:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What’s bizarre about that? The president is elected by the states, not by “the people”. Puerto Rico is not a state. Neither is Wash DC., and residents could not vote for president until the constitution was amended to allow them to do so (in 1961, with the passage of the 23rd amendment). The same applies to the other US Territories: US VI, Guam, etc. Good job cracking the wiki. The semi-bizarre comment was referring to the oddity of quasi-citizenship. I know _why_, dude. Do you spend your whole day hoping to correct someone? ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/34 "2017-10-13T01:02:47Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Trump speak: > > “If they wanted to be Americans, they should have been born in America, not on some Island in the middle of the ocean somewhere. And anyway, they should be doing this all themselves. What are they, lazy? They should be happy with those paper towels.” WTF ! Did the damn fool really say this !!?? Doesn’t he how PR became apart of USA ! :smack: > **[How Did Puerto Rico Become a U.S. Territory? - PUERTO RICO REPORT](https://puertoricoreport.com/puerto-rico-become-u-s-territory/)** > > The short answer: the United States won Puerto Rico in a war. From the landing of Columbus in 1492 until 1898, Puerto Rico was a colony of Spain. In 1898, Spain lost the Spanish-American war and gave Puerto Rico and Guam to the United States. Cuba... ---
**Author:** ![Buttercup\_Smith](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buttercup_smith/32/473_2.png) [@Buttercup\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buttercup_Smith)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/35 "2017-10-13T01:06:55Z")
Or they could do this and succeed [Conch Republic - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic). Oh, never mind Trump would love that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/36 "2017-10-13T01:26:15Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > You stole my idea. And mine. If we invade, we’d have to give them foreign aid, or a Marshall Plan - exactly Grand Fenwick’s idea, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/37 "2017-10-13T01:27:34Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > In a semi-bizarre twist, Puerto Ricans cannot vote in presidential elections, but if they move to one of the fifty states, they can. Interestingly, it appears many are moving to Florida because of the storm. And they are all Democrats. Which might get interesting. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/38 "2017-10-13T01:35:04Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Let’s not hand out the awards just yet. Your quoted piece points out one of the issues in getting forces there in a timely fashion. The territorial government requested 200 MPs and communications equipment from the Federal government. As I pointed out the Governor also didn’t fully mobilize the National Guard either before or immediately after. Governors are really important in disaster response; they are in charge of it. The Federal Government supports state’s or territories in disaster response with most of the outside assets needed - personnel, money, etc. Sending troops to perform disaster response that the Governor doesn’t want is a big legal issue. That doesn’t mean there weren’t balls dropped at the federal level. I don’t know if anybody at the federal level seriously looked at the territorial government request and asked the obvious hard question - “200 MPs and some commo…you gotta be fucking kidding me?!?” The interplay between all of the assets and between federal and state/territory in a complicated legal structure is also ripe for lots of friction to make even good plans fail. NORTHCOM planning issues while already engaged in one major incident may have contributed. I really haven’t seen any coverage that does more than scratch the surface level and dig into a very complicated legal, policy, and doctrinal framework to have an opinion on how many balls got dropped and by who. The notion that we should suddenly decide to start committing military assets to hurricane response in the OP is still profoundly ignorant. Elucidator got his wish before the good idea fairy even whispered in his ear. We’ve been there and done that. We’ve committed sizeable military forces under multiple Governors’ control to support responses after back to back hurricanes. A big chunk of that support has been in Puerto Rico. In all but one of the areas we’ve managed to avoid the mess that is Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is really ugly. It’s not about whether we should “invade” though. At best it’s a question of whether there’s something else the military can do, beyond what they are already doing, given federal and territorial and federal authority authorization, in a time frame that is useful to the people of Puerto Rico. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/39 "2017-10-13T01:40:55Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Do you spend your whole day hoping to correct someone? 😕 You… you say that like it’s a _bad_ thing… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660/40 "2017-10-13T02:11:34Z")
I wonder if the Republican party has considered just how many Puerto Ricans live in Florida and still have lots of family ties there. Trump might end up turning the Sunshine State solid blue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invade-puerto-rico-now/798660.md?page=3)