# Invading Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2006, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764 "2006-03-24T19:05:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/41 "2006-03-24T23:08:18Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > …or Saskatchewans. There’s more than one now? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/42 "2006-03-24T23:17:47Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > If by “Jesusland”, you mean those states that voted for Bush, it still doesn’t work. Remember that all of the rural American Midwest except for Minnesota voted for Bush, and Dakotans and Montanans don’t sound much different than Albertans or Saskatchewans. I saw one version of the Jesusland map that included Alberta. The Jesusland map, IMHO, is a simplification of the kind of cultural differences described in [Fire and Ice](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0143014226/002-2340205-9776039?v=glance&n=283155) and plotted geographically in Joel Garreau’s [The Nine Nations of North America](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Nations_of_North_America). I’ve long thought that North America would make more sense if it was reorganised along the lines of The Nine nations. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/43 "2006-03-24T23:19:15Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > There’s more than one now? Yes. There’s South Saskatchewan, also known as North Dakota. If you call it South Saskatchewan, it feels warmer in winter. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/44 "2006-03-24T23:25:39Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Yes. There’s South Saskatchewan, also known as North Dakota. If you call it South Saskatchewan, it feels warmer in winter. 🙂 You know, the second I hit submit on that post, I thought sure as anything someone would come along and point out that there _are_ two Saskatchewans - the [North](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Saskatchewan_River) and the [South](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Saskatchewan_River), and I’ve been busy trying to come up with a witty comeback. And then you go and pull this Dakota thing in out of left field. Bah!! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/45 "2006-03-24T23:37:57Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How many Canadians are going to fill their cars with explosives and drive them into crowds of American schoolchildren? How many Canadians are going to sneak over the border, break into the houses of American civilians, tie them all up and shoot them all in the back of the head? How many Canadians are going capture International Red Cross workers, hack their heads off with butcher knives, and send a video of the whole thing to the BBC? After a wholly unexpected and completely unprovoked invasion… I think I might give it a shot. I just wouldn’t claim I was doing the work of God in the process. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/46 "2006-03-25T00:10:56Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > After a wholly unexpected and completely unprovoked invasion… I think I might give it a shot. I just wouldn’t claim I was doing the work of God in the process. Would you do the horrible civilian-murdering things Lemur described, or be willing to sign up to kill soldiers? I’d be all ready to kill soldiers, but I’m not interested is slaying innocent people. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/47 "2006-03-25T00:12:07Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > After a wholly unexpected and completely unprovoked invasion… I think I might give it a shot. I just wouldn’t claim I was doing the work of God in the process. Wait. You’d honestly drive an explosive-laden truck into a bunch of five year old children, just because they were American? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/48 "2006-03-25T00:12:46Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > After a wholly unexpected and completely unprovoked invasion… I think I might give it a shot. I just wouldn’t claim I was doing the work of God in the process. Your’re safe, being in Quebec Province. We may be crazy, but we’re smart enough not to want Quebec! Just give us the English speaking parts, and nobody gets hurt. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/49 "2006-03-25T00:20:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Would you do the horrible civilian-murdering things Lemur described, or be willing to sign up to kill soldiers? I’d be all ready to kill soldiers, but I’m not interested is slaying innocent people. I think this may be getting a bit dark for what was obviously a light hearted OP (I still the first Canadian’s first response should say bomb the Baldwin household). But that said… The dividing line rapidly gets blurred… What about factories making munitions? What about people who live next door to a military base (or contractors who work there) ? Civil servants in the occupying administration ? A senior general at a children’s party ? And whatever you answers now, try repeating the same questions after the town where your family live has been the site of a few months of brutal house-to-house urban warfare. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/50 "2006-03-25T00:59:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Gun ownership is certainly in the millions… [ > [@](#): > > HOW MANY GUNS ARE THERE IN CANADA? > By Garry Breitkreuz, MP – December 13, 2001 > > Low Range Estimates > = 2,400,000 firearms owners > = 7,200,000 firearms > Medium Range Estimates > = 3,100,000 firearms owners > = 9,000,000 firearms > High Range Estimates > = 3,800,000 firearms owners > = 11,000,000 firearms ]([http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/GunsinCanada.htm](http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/GunsinCanada.htm)) CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/51 "2006-03-25T00:59:11Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I saw one version of the Jesusland map that included Alberta. I’m sure that would come as a huge shock to the large Hindu and Muslim communities in Alberta. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/52 "2006-03-25T01:37:15Z")
But what about air power? Could the Canadian Air Force even stand up to America’s, let alone beat it? If the United States is willing to go total war on Canadia and bomb everything, there is no way they can hold out. But like someone asked earlier, how willing are we to avoid civilian lives? If we do whatever it takes to keep the populous alive, it’d take a lot longer. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/53 "2006-03-25T01:45:55Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Wait. You’d honestly drive an explosive-laden truck into a bunch of five year old children, just because they were American? Hey, the OP is talking about invading my country, for apparantly no other reason than we’re Canadian. In the realm of goofy hypotheticals, nothing is off limits. That said, I happen to be a member of the Canadian Armed Forces and would, in the event of war, act in accordance with the lawful orders given by my superiors. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/54 "2006-03-25T01:51:37Z")
All kidding aside, is there any stronger alliance on the planet than that between the US and Canada? Even considering the “disagreement” over the Iraq war, I can’t think of any two countries that have coexisted so peacefully as neighbors for as long a time. I would say it’s a model that the rest of the world would do well to emulate. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/55 "2006-03-25T02:03:33Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > All kidding aside Nah, what’s the fun of that? Forty-four forty or fight! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/56 "2006-03-25T02:37:04Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > All kidding aside, is there any stronger alliance on the planet than that between the US and Canada? Even considering the “disagreement” over the Iraq war, I can’t think of any two countries that have coexisted so peacefully as neighbors for as long a time. I would say it’s a model that the rest of the world would do well to emulate. Well, there was that small tussle in 1812. And I DID get into a hell of a bar fight in Otawa in 1999… 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/57 "2006-03-25T02:38:30Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I can’t think of any two countries that have coexisted so peacefully as neighbors for as long a time. I would say it’s a model that the rest of the world would do well to emulate. Since 1812, last time the US invaded ? (that didn’t go so well 🙂 )Not even 200 years, not all that long… I’d say any of Switzerland’s relationship with any of its neighbours would be more peaceful than that (they declared neutrality in 1815 but I believe the last war they had was with France in 1700s) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/58 "2006-03-25T02:57:14Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I think this may be getting a bit dark for what was obviously a light hearted OP (I still the first Canadian’s first response should say bomb the Baldwin household). But that said… > > The dividing line rapidly gets blurred… > > What about factories making munitions? What about people who live next door to a military base (or contractors who work there) ? Civil servants in the occupying administration ? A senior general at a children’s party ? > . If we keep this to the initial hypothetical - an American invasion today, or in the very near future - we can assume Canada will be overrun and only a protracted guerrilla war would earn the nations’ freedom. **John Mace:** Of course this is a ludicrous proposition, there’s not going to be such a war now or in our lifetimes, but it’s fun to do it as a thought exercise. In such a scenario, international support would be critically important to Canada’s prospects; as I suggested, ideally the government could be reconstituted in a friendly nation (ideally the UK) and the war directed from there. However, the key to international support would be keep the war as clean as possible. If Canada resorted to killing civilians, that support could be rapidly lost. Accidental civilian deaths in attachs on military targets might be unavoidable but deliberate killing of civilians would be a disastrous, disastrous error. It would also be largely stupid. You’re not going to win such a conflict by blowing up a munitions factory in Decatur; the size of the American economy is such that you couldn’t possibly make a dent in it that way. The proper approach would be simply putting as much pressure on the occupying force as possible - specifically, by killing as many soldiers as you possibly could and destroying high profile military targets. The goal is to exhaust the U.S. populace’s willingness to continue fighting while simultaneously garnering overseas support to keep the campaign going. Ideally, you would infiltrate the USA and destroy targets there, too. But always military. (Off duty military is a valid target, so I’m afraid that if you can bag the senior general at the party, he’s gotta die.) The one possible problem you would have is a puppet government. As per usual practice, if there were an invasion, it would likely be closely followed by the appointment of a number of suitable Quislings to form a puppet government. The challenge then would be ensuring such a “government” did not gain legitimacy, which is why I think it’s critically important for a government in absentia to be formed overseas; that makes the phony government’s phoniness obvious. The question would be whether the traitors would be valid targets. I’d argue not, but I think you might have to change that position if they seem to be gaining traction. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/59 "2006-03-25T03:14:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > B]John Mace:\*\* Of course this is a ludicrous proposition, there’s not going to be such a war now or in our lifetimes, but it’s fun to do it as a thought exercise. Of course. Hence the majority of my posts in this thread have been jokes. Still, I just wanted to acknowledge the unusal nature of the US/Canada relationship. > [@griffin](#): > > Since 1812, last time the US invaded ? (that didn’t go so well )Not even 200 years, not all that long… I’d say any of Switzerland’s relationship with any of its neighbours would be more peaceful than that (they declared neutrality in 1815 but I believe the last war they had was with France in 1700s) More peaceful, or just a peaceful? In 1812, Canada did not exist as an independent country. Still, your point is well taken. Switzerland stands out as a unique country. That I won’t dispute. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764/60 "2006-03-25T03:19:26Z")
> [@GingerOfTheNorth](#): > > However, give the Canadian populace weapons and it’d be another story. I have a spatula, and I’m not afraid to use it. Look, you’re a nice enough bunch of people. Remarkably different from us, despite all the superficial similarities. I have been lucky enough to live in the USA, and I am grateful for the opportunity. But we ain’t you. We speak English (mostly), drive on the right, and spend and save a dollar. But we ain’t you, and I think there’d be a heck of an insurgency should the USA try to make Canada part of the States. We’re really big, geographically. Seriously, do you know how big we are? Canada stretches to the friggin’ North Pole. And for all our apologetic politeness and sometimes ineffectual ways with the wider world, there is a deep and solid core of love for this country that no one should take lightly. We are not USA Lite. My name is Jane\*, and I am Canadian. \*Damn, there went the pseudonym. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invading-canada/349764.md?page=4)