# Inventions that were behind their time **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 6, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334 "2004-09-06T14:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/41 "2004-09-07T17:54:09Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > But steam-driven toys were made around the turn of the millennium. Surely you could just scale them up? Or install a pressure relief valve like Watt’s speed governor, which surely could have been made at the time? Other than [Hero’s engine](http://physics.kenyon.edu/EarlyApparatus/Thermodynamics/Heros_Engine/Heros_Engine.html), I couldn’t find any pictures of what these toys might have looked like. Hero’s engine is itself very inefficient for doing any useful work, so if they were based on that design, scaling up would have been rather unspectacular. [Here is an explanation](http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/newcomen.htm) of the Newcomen and Watt engines, and the principles involved in their operation. While Hero might have been able to construct a small, low pressure Newcomen type engine out of bronze after all, I don’t think anyone back then knew enough about physics to capitalize on presssure differentials. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/42 "2004-09-07T18:15:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Napoleon’s armies had to pour their pickled meals out of old wine and liquor bottles. I’m not sure if it counts as a supporting cite, but that was shown on James Burke’s Connections as well. Although the food wasn’t pickled, but heat processed. Pickled food had been available in large crocks for some time before canning. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/43 "2004-09-07T18:53:11Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > While Hero might have been able to construct a small, low pressure Newcomen type engine out of bronze after all, I don’t think anyone back then knew enough about physics to capitalize on presssure differentials. Well, that’s the point, innit? They could have done it, if only they had put some serious manhours into the problem. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/44 "2004-09-07T20:06:44Z")
> [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > Suck. Bang. Blow. No, not your girlfriend – the jet engine. Its function and design are amazingly simple compared to the internal combustion or diesel engine. Air goes in through a compressor (suck), fuel mixes with the air, the mixture is ignited (bang), and force and exhaust are expelled from the rear (blow). The resulting combustion in turn powers the compressor, forcing more air in and self-igniting the combustion. Very few moving parts. Why didn’t we have these earlier than the 1940’s? > > Adam I think the problem is that you need high quality steel to make this work. I remember reading that the German Jet planes had problems because the engines would wear out pretty quickly due to the metal not being able to tolerate the high tempretures, or somethign to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/45 "2004-09-07T20:21:11Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The ball element for typewriters, making the non-moving carriage possible. Why did it take IBM so long to invent the Selectric? Or, even better and simpler, the daisywheel. How about Bicycle helmets? We had motorcycle helmets for years before people thought they’d come in handy on a bike, too… Zippers. The Franklin Stove, rather than the fireplace. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/46 "2004-09-07T20:41:54Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Well, that’s the point, innit? They could have done it, if only they had put some serious manhours into the problem. I suppose that’s true in a sense, but nearly the entire field of physics had yet to be discovered. Some of these other inventions, such as can openers and pantyhose, didn’t require any gargantuan leaps of thought, just a bit of tinkering with well known concepts and materials. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/47 "2004-09-07T21:15:32Z")
The automobile (internal combustion or steam personal transportation). It, or its market, followed the bicycle and probably was inspired by it. Per book “Wheels for a Nation”, from about 1890 there were a lot of blacksmiths and so on building self-moving vehicles. But quit a bit earlier in the 1800s, there had been a number of one-off working autos made in various locations, and they could have been manufactured in some quantity. But transportation was by animal or, for distance, by trains and ships. One of the inventors who recorded his inspiration specifically said he thought of it while riding his bicycle. There had been steam engine railroads and boats for some time (most of a century?), and the metallurgy and so forth was adequate, but per the author no one manufactured an automobile until bicycles were widespread. It seems that not just the concept but the market for autos came from them. Then of course the production line followed, and away we went. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/48 "2004-09-07T21:27:59Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Or, even better and simpler, the daisywheel. I mention the ball element because it was introduced first, and IBM patented it. I remember the marvel of having a typewriter that didn’t move the carriage and where you could actually change the type with a flick of the wrist. Typewriter ribbons that were only used once and tossed and the whole concept of correcting tape being on the typewriter were also very futuristic when the Selectric was introduced. I still use a Selectric II, and I have to fight to keep it in the office. That’s a real mofo typewriter. ---
**Author:** ![pyrrthon1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@pyrrthon1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pyrrthon1)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/49 "2004-09-07T21:40:31Z")
Luggage with wheels. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/50 "2004-09-07T21:43:14Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > I think the problem is that you need high quality steel to make this work. I remember reading that the German Jet planes had problems because the engines would wear out pretty quickly due to the metal not being able to tolerate the high tempretures, or somethign to that effect. Indeed, I am always rather amazed the fact that jet engines were able to be developed so early on (late WW2), especially when you consider that less than ten years before there were still loads of wood and cloth biplanes in use. Then again, look at the devlopment of battle aircraft in WW1 and you’ll be amazed at the rapid pace of development and obsleting of craft. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/51 "2004-09-08T02:11:51Z")
Photography. Make some gelatin from animal connective tissue and form a sheet which will be your negative; make a room-size pin-hole camera; have subject sunlit; focus light on damp gelatin sheet until the illuminated areas dry relative to the amount of light; use oil-based ink on the gelatin and turn out prints. it might work… it might work better for black and white, not half tones ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/52 "2004-09-08T02:47:39Z")
**Mary** , you just described (except for the film bit) the [camera obscura.](http://brightbytes.com/cosite/what.html) It may have been around since before the 5th Century BCE. It was filmless, though. You drew or painted the projected image. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/53 "2004-09-08T03:14:52Z")
I think some things like aircraft, automobiles, telephones, computers, jet engines, printing presses, and photography existed as concepts before they were built. Many inventers could see there was a market for these products and were working on building good prototypes, but all of these ideas require a lot of technological tinkering before they were perfected into workable forms. These are all examples of “1% inspiration and 99% persperation”. In other cases we have an idea which literally is there for the taking; something which can be easily built with existing technology and will pretty much work as expected right from the start. The first guy who tried to build a chimney, a wheelbarrow, or a pair of scissors probably succeeded pretty quickly once he thought of the idea of what he wanted to make. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/54 "2004-09-09T03:23:44Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > I think some things like aircraft, automobiles, telephones, computers, jet engines, printing presses, and photography existed as concepts before they were built. Many inventers could see there was a market for these products and were working on building good prototypes, but all of these ideas require a lot of technological tinkering before they were perfected into workable forms. These are all examples of “1% inspiration and 99% persperation”. Seems to be especially true about photography - a whole lot of people working on a bunch of different processes, which all suffered from being too expensive or too impermanent or too freaking blue or what have you. You get the feeling they all just _knew_ there _had_ to be a better way. So after people started working on it there was a boom in the surrounding inventive technology because it was something everybody was working on. Not, as you said, like some of the other things more truly appropriate to the OP, which should come with a :smack:. ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/55 "2004-09-09T18:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > But oh no! The world had to wait for some easily distracted Englishman to put the kettle on. Gaaaah! Watt was a Scot! [http://www.tartans.com/articles/famscots/jameswattmain.html](http://www.tartans.com/articles/famscots/jameswattmain.html) ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/56 "2004-09-09T19:06:39Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > I think the problem is that you need high quality steel to make this work. I remember reading that the German Jet planes had problems because the engines would wear out pretty quickly due to the metal not being able to tolerate the high tempretures, or somethign to that effect. Agreed. A few years ago I had the opportunity to visit the hangar of an ME-262 restoration, and they had one of the original Jumo jet engines dismantled. I was fascinated by how crude and homemade the manufacture was compared to any machined part nowadays. It looked like every piece was a casting (as opposed to a milling or forging) and was rough, lumpy, and ugly, like 1800’s era farm machinery. It literally looked like they were still casting the iron in clay & straw molds. Given the poor quality in general of steelworking of the time, I’m not at all surprised that efficiency, reliability, and strength of materials weren’t up to the task of inventing it earlier. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/57 "2004-09-09T20:11:31Z")
> [@NoPretentiousCodename](#): > > _giggle_ > > “Gentlemen! Behold! I have invented… The Can!” > > "Great… ummm… what is it for? > “You can store food in The Can!” > > “And then…?” > "Well… err… I mean… You can eat it later! > > “Uh huh. How? Exactly?” > “You open The Can!” > > “With…?” > "… … God Damn It! See, what you do is sell them the cans and the tech to make the cans cheaply… But the can opener costs a hell of a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/58 "2004-09-09T20:38:22Z")
Hot air balloons. This is another one of those inventions where the basic concept was known for centuries before, but it took until the 17th(?) century for the Montgolfier brothers to figure out how to make a big enough bag and keep it hot without catching fire, so you could haul people-sized payload in it. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334/59 "2004-09-09T21:10:24Z")
**Hot air balloons**. Pretty easy to make. **Hang gliders**. The japanese were making kites that could carry people, why didn’t anyone think to invent a hang glider? **Gunpowder**. Sulphur, charcoal, saltpeter. All fairly common substances. This could easily have been invented by the romans. I agree that making cannon and firearms isn’t as obvious, the Chinese had gunpowder for hundreds of years without being able to make a really effective weapon out of it. **Glass lenses of all kinds** : eyeglasses, magnifying glasses, telescopes, microscopes, prisms. As soon as good quality glass was produced, the optical properties of glass were just sitting there waiting to be discovered. This should have been an easy one. The ancient greeks had the math to understand how these work. I suppose glass was an extremely rare commodity then, there wasn’t enough and it was too expensive for people to play with much. **Perspective Drawing** : simple to understand, really. Why couldn’t this have been invented a few thousand years ago? **The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection**. People had been breeding animals for thousands of years, they knew that organisms produced more offspring than could survive, they knew that organisms varied, they knew that a portion of that variability was hereditary. That’s all you really need to understand natural selection. This concept could have been invented by Aristotle rather than Charles Darwin. **The Stirrup**. This is another of those blindingly obvious concepts. It seems so impossible that ancient people didn’t use stirrups, you will often see historical movies or books showing ancients using stirrups. But they weren’t introduced until the middle ages. All those Scythians riding around in chariots would have smacked their forheads Homer Simpson style if they ever saw these. D’oh! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/inventions-that-were-behind-their-time/263334.md?page=2)