# Investigating Trump, post-Mueller **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 25, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477 "2019-03-25T02:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SOJA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SOJA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SOJA)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/21 "2019-03-25T08:17:38Z")
Even Barr’s pity memo states it doesn’t exonerate the President of any criminal acts. Barr chose to leave that part from RM’s report in there. Of course, it’s impossible to indict a sitting POTUS, but it isn’t impossible to indict those who work for him, including but not limited to his children, who’ve gotten their hands dirty for him. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/22 "2019-03-25T08:26:24Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I’ve never seen so many Americans so upset to find out that their president is \*not \*a traitor. You are confused. Some charges are very difficult to prove in a court of law. Trump is known to be a fraudster and could probably be indicted for campaign finance violations. Some of his closest confidantes are going to prison. His coddling of Putin is disgusting. The main reason NOT to view him as a Manchurian Candidate is his stupidity: he’s just not competent enough to be a master traitor. Yet some view him as exonerated. :smack: One doesn’t know whether to laugh or to weep. Al Capone was convicted only of tax evasion; does that mean he was not a murderer? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/23 "2019-03-25T08:55:43Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > …Just glad the election was legitimate. Outside of the three to five million “illegal votes” that Hillary got? Does it concern you in the slightest that he never even _tried_ to prove that? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/24 "2019-03-25T08:59:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Outside of the three to five million “illegal votes” that Hillary got? Does it concern you in the slightest that he never even _tried_ to prove that? Pence lead a voter fraud investigation committee. To be fair, the committee never successfully did anything, nor did they try all that hard, but it did exist. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/25 "2019-03-25T14:04:39Z")
**Sage Rat** , would you care to provide some content to go with those nouns and links? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/26 "2019-03-25T14:17:55Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I’ve never seen so many Americans so upset to find out that their president is \*not \*a traitor. I’ve never seen so many Americans willing to defend suspected treason and corruption as long as they benefited from it, yet here we are. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/27 "2019-03-25T14:42:33Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Ok I predict he’ll win 2020 and by the time he gets out of office will be so old and infeeble the state won’t waste their time, it will all wash away. He’s Won. Perhaps deemed mentally incapable of standing trial. President, no problem, a trial, no. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/28 "2019-03-25T15:01:01Z")
Any further investigations will be perceived as vindictive and unwarranted harassment. The Muller investigation has cost taxpayers 25 million and found nothing directly against Trump. It’s been an emotional rollercoaster for the country. It started right after the election and before Trump was even sworn into office. The public sees it as sour grapes by Hillary supporters. The dems can’t accept the fact that she ran a shit campaign. The unsubstantiated accusations against Trump are already a political disaster for Democrats. It will certainly be used against them in the Presidential race. Dems could lose the House if they continue the relentless attacks. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/29 "2019-03-25T15:06:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Any further investigations will be perceived as vindictive and unwarranted harassment. So you don’t think oversight of the executive branch requires investigations? Or you don’t think congress should do any oversight? > [@](#): > > The Muller investigation has cost taxpayers 25 million and found nothing directly against Trump. Cite for the cost? In my understanding, it actually paid for itself, and more, based on the criminal resources it exposed and siezed. > [@](#): > > The unsubstantiated accusations against Trump are already a political disaster for Democrats. It will certainly be used against them in the Presidential race. > > Dems could lose the House if they continue the relentless attacks. This is fantasy world stuff. And FWIW, we don’t actually know what’s in the Mueller report. All we know is what a Trump appointee chose to say about it… and what he said included a direct implication that there is evidence Trump and co committed obstruction of justice (though not enough for criminal prosecution, according to this Trump appointee). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/30 "2019-03-25T15:08:03Z")
The cost is 25.2 million. So far. [https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5557693/mueller-report-cost](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5557693/mueller-report-cost) > [@](#): > > Mueller’s office has not yet filed an expense report for the last six months of his investigation, but including the DOJ’s contributions, the total reported cost so far is $25.2 million. > > Given that the last three expense report ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/31 "2019-03-25T15:09:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Any further in investigations will be perceived vindictive and unwarranted harassment. I trust Trump on continue ignoring the lesson he should had learned. That about really getting better people. So more investigations are coming. > [@aceplace57](#): > > The Muller investigation has cost taxpayers 25 million and found nothing directly against Trump. AFAIK, this one is wrong since the Justice department got a lot in fines and seizures against people like Manafort. > [@aceplace57](#): > > The unsubstantiated accusations against Trump are already political disaster for Democrats. Attorney General William Barr quoted Mueller saying his report “does not exonerate” Trump. > [@aceplace57](#): > > They could lose the House if they continue the relentless attacks. Since a lot of the attacks will not be about the done Russia thing; the attacks will continue because, again, Trump will make new reasons to justify them. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/32 "2019-03-25T15:14:01Z")
I didn’t object to the Mueller investigation. It was needed to better understand the Russians interference. I do think the public wants the investigations to stop. There are better and more traditional ways to politically oppose Trump’s agenda. IMHO Don’t continue to abuse the Justice System for political gain. Get back to regular politics. Debate between the Dems and Republicans is healthy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/33 "2019-03-25T15:14:19Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The cost is 25.2 million. So far. > [https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5557693/mueller-report-cost](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5557693/mueller-report-cost) It actually paid for itself. It may even turn a profit, after everything is accounted for: > **[At a reported cost of $25 million, Mueller probe has paid for itself](https://thinkprogress.org/at-a-reported-cost-of-25-million-mueller-probe-has-paid-for-itself-76fdcee15c9b/)** > > Paul Manafort effectively has paid for the Russia investigation. > **[Yes, the Mueller investigation is costly. But the millions seized from...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/12/mueller-russia-investigation-costs/2736507002/)** > > Banks and the Trump Tower condo board have staked claims to the $26.7 million fortune Paul Manafort must give up after his Russia-probe convictions. Your information sources are not good. You should re-evaluate them and make sure you’re getting more than just biased info from one side. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/34 "2019-03-25T15:17:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I didn’t object to the Mueller investigation. It was needed to better understand the Russians interference. So let’s wait until we see the actual report before making conclusions about it. > [@](#): > > I do think the public wants the investigations to stop. There are better and more traditional ways to politically oppose Trump’s agenda. > IMHO Investigations into possible wrongdoing in the government are one of the most important functions of congress. Are you suggesting that they should ignore evidence of wrongdoing? > [@](#): > > Don’t continue to abuse the Justice System for political gain. I agree. Hopefully you’ll oppose the DOJ if it resists efforts to release the Mueller report over concerns it could be politically damaging to the president. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/35 "2019-03-25T15:20:10Z")
they will end up looking for parking tickets he did not pay in NYC ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/36 "2019-03-25T15:20:55Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The cost is 25.2 million. So far. > [https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5557693/mueller-report-cost](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5557693/mueller-report-cost) Investigating Whitewater cost over $70 million. What did we get for all that money? A blowjob. Spare me your pretensions of fiscal responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/37 "2019-03-25T15:22:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The cost is 25.2 million. So far. > [https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5557693/mueller-report-cost](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5557693/mueller-report-cost) But also resulted in getting $42 million from Manafort. The Manafort money didn’t go into investigation budget (nor should it have), but in terms of “net cost to taxpayers” the taxpayers came out way ahead on this one. Plus the argument that “The investigation didn’t prove anything directly against Trump and therefore was useless” is a deliberate attempt to distract from the fact that the investigation was extremely productive. Several members of Trump’s campaign team and inner circle have either pleaded guilty or been convicted of felonies, and there are another two dozen or so indictments outstanding. Compare that to the multiple Benghazi investigations (cost $7 million) which found nothing, or the Whitewater investigation (cost $69 million) which found a lie about - and attempt to hide - an infidelity. And of course there are other ongoing investigations. Should we not look into the issues with misuse of charity funds, breaches of campaign finance laws, and possible bank fraud relating to loan applications? Should we handwave them away simply because we’re all a bit bored with it all? Because I’m pretty sure the legal system doesn’t work like that. “The public” doesn’t want the investigations to stop. Those who support Trump want them to stop. Those who don’t, want them to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/38 "2019-03-25T15:32:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It seems that he disagreed. Do you think your judgement is superior to his on this matter? I am confused and don’t know enough details. The entire report needs to be examined by independent sources. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/39 "2019-03-25T17:08:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **aceplace57** : > > IMHO > Don’t continue to abuse the Justice System for political gain. > > Get back to regular politics. Debate between the Dems and Republicans is healthy. Getting back to regular politics, or at least attempting to, is the reason for the investigations. To go back to non-criminal politics, we have to catch the criminals. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477/40 "2019-03-25T19:09:17Z")
There are probably all manner of crony crimes and fraud that can be uncovered to hang on Trump. This is a guy who boasted in the first debate that he paid off politicians. Even the obstruction charge seems reasonable, but it says nothing of the Putin conspiracy stuff. This is what makes me think that the Russian Conspiracy theorists should be hung out to dry by anyone with any sense of decency. Only they can tell us why they were so bizarrely fixated on the Russia angle when there were other things to hang on Trump. I think they were duped by the spooks and warmongers who wanted to antagonize Russia. Brennan, Clapper, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/investigating-trump-post-mueller/831477.md?page=3)