# Invisible Children / Kony thing = scam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 8, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124 "2012-03-08T05:39:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/61 "2012-03-13T07:14:58Z")
I see there are rumours that he’s already dead, and has been since 2006. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/62 "2012-03-13T11:23:31Z")
Here are the facts: 1. Kony is a bad guy in every way, and the world will be better off without him. 2. Invisible Children has done a spectacular job raising awareness and mobilizing American political will, but otherwise not much is known about them. 3. The US sent some military advisors in a while back to assist in the effort to take him out 4. Everything in this region of Africa is complex, and any understanding of it needs to be tied back to Congo and the extreme complexity of the Second Congo War. 5. The ultimate problem is that there are a few countries in the area with weak governance, who cannot guarantee the security of their citizens for various reasons. 6. We are learning about how to support countries to develop transparent and effective governments, but honestly this is new ground (previously, we mostly focused on getting favorable governments of any kind- see Egypt- purely economic reform) and we are not sure what is truly effective. 7. Lots of good stuff has gone on in Africa lately, with rises in health, economic prosperity, and education. Poverty in Africa could easily resemble poverty in Asia and Latin America, which is quickly dissipating. But these areas of persistent conflict are a major limiting factor. > [@blindboyard](#): > > I see there are rumours that he’s already dead, and has been since 2006. Seems unlikely. The LRA have killed a couple thousand people and destroyed quite a few villages in CAR recently. I seriously doubt the movement- which has no ideological underpinnings, hence the need to rely on forced child soldiers- has the momentum or organization to cause that kind of mayhem without its leader. It’d be like the Manson family continuing to rampage without Charles Manson- unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/63 "2012-03-15T14:01:36Z")
[Invisible Children’s covert agenda](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpuB11d0Gog) by British humorist Charlie Brooker, who is I guess the closest thing we’ve got to John Stewart. It’s not good. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/64 "2012-03-16T08:24:56Z")
Good man jjim, I was reading through this to see if anyone else has posted that. Charlie has a way of getting the nub of the argument. In short, they are Christian fundamental whackjobs with more that a whiff of the cult about them. They appear to be using an uncontroversial topic (killing kids is bad - yeah?) in order to recruit people into their organisation. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/65 "2012-03-16T13:07:23Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And Jesse Helms supported billions of dollars for Bono’s effort to combat AIDS in Africa. > > Bono: hating gays by trying to eliminate AIDS in Africa. In this case, the entire POINT of the agitation against Kony, whom everyone agrees is not even in Uganda anymore, is to whitewash the reputation of the Museveni government, which, in addition to being the flag-bearers for the “kill the gays” bill, uses child soldiers of its own in addition to sundry other human rights abuses. It’s not tarring a secular cause by association with Christian nutbars, it’s the Christian nutbars themselves who are leading IC, being funded by wealthier Christian nutbars, for the sole purpose of getting naive American college students to accept a foreign Christian nutbar. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/66 "2012-03-16T13:38:02Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > In short, they are Christian fundamental whackjobs with more that a whiff of the cult about them. > They appear to be using an uncontroversial topic (killing kids is bad - yeah?) in order to recruit people into their organisation. Or as a friend’s dad once labelled the group Athlete, they’re “stealth Christians”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/67 "2012-03-16T13:51:57Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > In this case, the entire POINT of the agitation against Kony, whom everyone agrees is not even in Uganda anymore, is to whitewash the reputation of the Museveni government… That’s not what Invisible Children has said about the government: > [@](#): > > We do not defend any of the human rights abuses perpetrated by the Ugandan government or the Ugandan army (UPDF). None of the money donated through Invisible Children ever goes to the government of Uganda or any other government. Yet the only feasible and proper way to stop Kony and protect the civilians he targets is to coordinate efforts with regional governments. [Link.](http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/03/09/199524.html) > [@](#): > > It’s not tarring a secular cause by association with Christian nutbars, it’s the Christian nutbars themselves who are leading IC, being funded by wealthier Christian nutbars, for the sole purpose of getting naive American college students to accept a foreign Christian nutbar. And Invisible Children is also funded by groups like [Humanity United](http://www.humanityunited.org/blog/grant-announcement-invisible-children), which is a project of eBay founder [Pierre Omidyar](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Omidyar). They’ve also received large grants from Chase Community Giving Foundation, which came under criticism for [excluding](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/19/us/19charity.html) an anti-abortion group, “Justice for All,” from receiving grants. They also got at least one grant of $100,000 from the [Wildlife Conservation Society](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildlife_Conservation_Society), which is linked to radical organizations like the Bronx Zoo. If you have evidence that eBay, JP Morgan’s charitable arm, and the Bronx Zoo have fundamentalist, anti-gay agendas that have somehow remained hidden from public view for such a long time, I’m sure we would all be interested in hearing that. Shoot, the New York Times would probably be interested in running a story on this conspiracy, too. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/68 "2012-03-16T14:47:09Z")
Yes, just like the individual Model UN idiots targeted by the video, those charities have been hoodwinked into supporting the IC scam. Their money will go to line the pockets of the IC leaders and to keep presenting the war criminals who run Uganda as good guys. Despite the idea that only violent homophobes know what’s really going on in Uganda, the reality is that the US went troops there last year, and Kony is no longer in the country. It seems to me that the burden is on the Christian supremacist assholes to prove what buying an ironic t-shirt from them and further arming the dictatorship in Uganda is supposed to accomplish, given that. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/69 "2012-03-16T15:15:30Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Yes, just like the individual Model UN idiots targeted by the video, those charities have been hoodwinked into supporting the IC scam. Their money will go to line the pockets of the IC leaders and to keep presenting the war criminals who run Uganda as good guys. And your proof that all these secular organizations are being hoodwinked is based on… what? That Invisible Children received grants from Christian organizations? How do you know that it isn’t the Christian organizations that are being hoodwinked? ETA: Keep in mind that I have provided a quote from Invisible Children that they do not support the repression by the Ugandan government. Just because you repeat something again and again does not make it true. Show me facts of where IC presented “war criminals” as “good guys.” ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/70 "2012-03-16T16:34:02Z")
Here are some[other links](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/03/12/its-complicated-responding-to-kony-2012/) about Kony. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/71 "2012-03-16T20:57:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And your proof that all these secular organizations are being hoodwinked is based on… what? That Invisible Children received grants from Christian organizations? Invisible Children _IS_ a Christian fundamentalist organization. It’s not about their donors, it’s about their own leadership and the people who made it possible for them to even get visible enough to fundraise. Their whole MISSION is to strengthen the existing alliance between American far-right Christians and the Ugandan government. If this were actually about Kony, perhaps they would be talking about the DR Congo, where Kony ACTUALLY IS, and not Uganda, where Kony and the LRA have been gone since the Bush administration. > [@](#): > > How do you know that it isn’t the Christian organizations that are being hoodwinked? Why would a Christian organization need to be hoodwinked into supporting a gay-murdering dictator? > [@](#): > > ETA: Keep in mind that I have provided a quote from Invisible Children that they do not support the repression by the Ugandan government. Just because you repeat something again and again does not make it true. Show me facts of where IC presented “war criminals” as “good guys.” “Ron Paul isn’t a racist because Ron Paul says he’s not a racist!” ---
**Author:** ![Semjaazah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b19c9b/32.png) [@Semjaazah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Semjaazah)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/72 "2012-03-16T21:05:58Z")
[http://rt.com/usa/news/kony-2012-arrested-masturbating-777/](http://rt.com/usa/news/kony-2012-arrested-masturbating-777/) Definitely a scam. Never trust anything run by a pervert. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/73 "2012-03-16T21:16:50Z")
> [@Semjaazah](#): > > Never trust anything run by a pervert. Well, that’s not the sort of thing that a Christian fundamentalist would do. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/74 "2012-03-16T21:23:31Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Their whole MISSION is to strengthen the existing alliance between American far-right Christians and the Ugandan government. Perhaps I missed something in this thread, but can you give examples of when this organization has supported the Ugandan government? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/75 "2012-03-16T22:26:56Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Perhaps I missed something in this thread, but can you give examples of when this organization has supported the Ugandan government? “The only feasible and proper way to stop Kony and protect the civilians he targets is to coordinate efforts with regional governments.” That’s a quote from them defending their plan to…well, support the Ugandan government. Even when they make halfhearted acknowledgements of human rights violations by the UDF (conspicuously, never acknowledging that it’s by Museveni himself and never by the Christian pro-government bloc in Uganda, always by the UDF as if the army had no ties to the dictator or his power base) they can never make it to the end of the sentence without adding “but of course we need to send lots of American soldiers and money to the people who we just acknowledged are human rights abusers.” Kony isn’t in Uganda and isn’t kidnapping anyone anymore. He has been defeated and is on the run in the Congo. Funneling resources to the government of Uganda won’t catch him, and no one is being protected from anything by treating a search for a fugitive criminal as a war. Of course he should be captured and held accountable for his crimes, but the burden is on you to explain why increased ties to the government of Uganda is supposed to help accomplish any of that, or why I should trust fundamentalist Christians who crocodile-tear over how “feasible and proper” it is to ally with a brutal dictator and his “kill the gays” supporters while refusing to explain where the money is going. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/76 "2012-03-16T23:10:18Z")
I think your reasoning says more about your having an axe to grind with Christians than it does for any particular objectionable action by this group. Every NGO has to coordinate with governments. Every single one. That isn’t supporting a government, that is just a fact of life. Now, if you actually have any evidence that they have supported the government - giving material aid to them, defending them from criticism, that sort of thing- that would change my mind. But based on what you’ve presented so far, one can make a stronger argument that Bono supported the Bush Administration to a much greater degree than these guys have supported the Ugandan government. And if the LRA is no longer an issue in Uganda, perhaps you should inform the governments of Uganda, the CAR, the DR Congo, South Sudan, and the United States. They all seem pretty motivated to find Kony and bring him to justice. Perhaps you can explain to the leaders of those countries that there really is no need to do that? > **[Uganda to head new military force to hunt for Kony](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE82D0WY20120316)** > > Uganda will head a new four-nation military force to capture Joseph Kony, the fugitive warlord whose global profile has soared in recent days due to a celebrity-backed Internet campaign to bring him to justice. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/77 "2012-03-16T23:21:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Every NGO has to coordinate with governments. Every single one. That isn’t supporting a government, that is just a fact of life. Now, if you actually have any evidence that they have supported the government - giving material aid to them, defending them from criticism, that sort of thing- that would change my mind. But based on what you’ve presented so far, one can make a stronger argument that Bono supported the Bush Administration to a much greater degree than these guys have supported the Ugandan government. No, they DON’T have to coordinate with the Ugandan government to capture Kony because Kony ISN’T IN UGANDA and likely hasn’t been since 2006. The only explanation for their insistence on doing so is that their motivation is something other than capturing Joseph Kony. This is like saying we have to put aside our differences and send soldiers and money to the government of Iran in order to catch the leaders of the Taliban. Because the Taliban is bad, and somewhere kind of close to Iran, and that’s all that matters, and anyone who disagrees with either the morality of collaborating with an evil regime or the practicality of looking for someone in a country we know he is not in obviously just opposes fundamentalist religious assholes murdering people for some silly reason and doesn’t have a masters’ degree from the Youtube School of Political Science like you do. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/78 "2012-03-16T23:39:47Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > No, they DON’T have to coordinate with the Ugandan government to capture Kony because Kony ISN’T IN UGANDA and likely hasn’t been since 2006. The only explanation for their insistence on doing so is that their motivation is something other than capturing Joseph Kony. They run education programs in Uganda and neighboring countries. If an NGO runs development programs in a country, they have to have some sort of relationship with the government. That’s as true for NGOs like this one as it is for the Gates Foundation, the Red Cross, or whatever charity you name as it is for any other NGO. The fact that there is coordination is simply a technical, legal, and/or practical matter. Now, if there is evidence that they support the Ugandan government with money, show it. If there is evidence they support anti-gay programs, show it Running a scholarship program (and similar activities) is not supporting a government. Give some evidence that they have actually supported the government in order to achieve objectionable things and I will gladly change my mind. Right now you’re engaging in the same kind of smears that the right wing uses against the Girl Scouts just because the Girl Scouts has, at some point, cooperated with Planned Parenthood, therefore the Girl Scouts are a pro-abortion organization. Guilt by association with zero evidence of the actual allegations. [http://www.invisiblechildren.com/programs.html](http://www.invisiblechildren.com/programs.html) > [@](#): > > This is like saying we have to put aside our differences and send soldiers and money to the government of Iran in order to catch the leaders of the Taliban. Because the Taliban is bad, and somewhere kind of close to Iran, and that’s all that matters, and anyone who disagrees with either the morality of collaborating with an evil regime or the practicality of looking for someone in a country we know he is not in obviously just opposes fundamentalist religious assholes murdering people for some silly reason and doesn’t have a masters’ degree from the Youtube School of Political Science like you do. Do you believe the Red Cross is currently supports the Iranian government? And my masters degree is from the London School of Economics and Political Science. Maybe you have heard of it. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/79 "2012-03-17T00:39:03Z")
OK, OK, but can we all just take a moment to agree that it is fucking _hilarious_ that the guy behind the Kony vid just got arrested after [“masturbating in public” and “vandalizing cars,” while “possibly under the influence of something,” at first wearing “Speedo-like underwear,” but soon enough removing them to “make sexual gestures”](http://www.nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/03/kony-2012-jason-russell-invisible-children-arrested.html?imw=Y)? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124/80 "2012-03-17T02:31:10Z")
Yeah, that’s the kind of stuff they reserve for the last 6 seconds of Visa commercials: priceless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invisible-children-kony-thing-scam/615124.md?page=5)