# Invitation to all child-beaters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345 "2008-10-10T17:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/21 "2008-10-10T18:01:02Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Sorry, beating a defenseless child is very much my business. If it’s so admirable a practice, why not do it openly, or at least discuss it openly? Because you’re afraid you’ll get arrested? If it’s something you’re sure is legal, you’ll beat the rap. I was spanked as a child, as were all my siblings. (the youngest is currently 15) They had no problem saying that they practiced corporal punishment, but it was always done in private. They didn’t believe that the punishment needed the humiliation of being done in public. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/22 "2008-10-10T18:02:18Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Well, if he disagrees, as I suspect he might, let him come in here holding his head up proudly and discuss those practices that I find so thoroughly uncivilized. It is kind of chickenshit to say “I do it, but I don’t want to talk about it,” don’t you think? Well, I am not a parent, but I was a kid who got spanked. (A couple times a month. What can I say? We were hyper active little scamps, my siblings and me. 🙂 ) I feel neither abused, or mal-adjusted as an adult. Do you recommend that I “confront” my father, or start considering him a “chickenshit” and stuff? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/23 "2008-10-10T18:02:21Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I was spanked as a child, as were all my siblings. (the youngest is currently 15) They had no problem saying that they practiced corporal punishment, but it was always done in private. They didn’t believe that the punishment needed the humiliation of being done in public. Suuuuure. That’s the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/24 "2008-10-10T18:03:42Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Suuuuure. That’s the ticket. What problem is there with my statement? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/25 "2008-10-10T18:09:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, you admit there’s no practical difference between moderate corporal punishment, and other forms of discipline? No, my point is that words hurt. But if they are wrongly adminstered, they can always be taken back, and sincerely apologized for. Not so with beatings—no matter what, a parent can’t even take a beating back. Well, he or she can, I suppose, but few parents would volunteer to take a beating at their grown child’s hand, and no sane grown child would administer such a beating. The harshest punishments I’ve ever gotten were when someone I loved expressed disappointment in me, and the very harshest were when the disappointment was deserved. Those were leaning experiences, and the person dishing them out had to behave with genuine consideration of my needs and control the anger he certainly felt toward me. That takes maturity and control. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/26 "2008-10-10T18:12:07Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > No, my point is that words hurt. But if they are wrongly adminstered, they can always be taken back, and sincerely apologized for. Not so with beatings—no matter what, a parent can’t even take a beating back. You can’t unsay things, either. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/27 "2008-10-10T18:15:24Z")
I don’t advocate spanking. But once, my kid–3 years old–was hitting me while I was bringing him to his time-out chair and… well… I hit him back. Just a slap on the front of the leg–enough, I think, to sting but not even enough to redden the skin or anything like that. It was mostly reflex and a lack of ability to think quickly enough on my own part.\* I can’t pretend it was a thought-out parenting strategy or anything like that. He did stop hitting me, and hasn’t hit me since. But I’ve never been convinced it was “the right thing to do.” I am also not convinced it was a particularly terrible thing to do either, though. Life is messy. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/28 "2008-10-10T18:15:52Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > What problem is there with my statement? It’s a self-serving rationalization. If it’s so deeply embarrassing to be spanked in public, then why not administer one swat on the butt publicly instead of four or seven privately? That should teach them, and do less physical harm, are save your wear and tear on your beating hand, and drive home your sincere object lesson all that more sharply. The sole reason that virtually all child abuse takes place behind closed doors, as **Airman Doors** confirms, is that some snooping ACLU-loving witch of a nosy, busybody neighbor will intercede on the child’s behalf and call the law. “it’s a family matter,” “It doesn’t concern you,” “Mind your own damned business” are just code for “Nobody must ever know of this,” which clearly serves the abusive parent’s interest above all. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/29 "2008-10-10T18:16:18Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > No, my point is that words hurt. But if they are wrongly adminstered, they can always be taken back, and sincerely apologized for. Not so with beatings—no matter what, a parent can’t even take a beating back. I would rather my parents had spanked me than say something along the lines of, “You ruined my life, I wish you were never born.” A spanking only hurts for awhile, words can hurt for a lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/30 "2008-10-10T18:18:03Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > The harshest punishments I’ve ever gotten were when someone I loved expressed disappointment in me, and the very harshest were when the disappointment was deserved. Those were leaning experiences, and the person dishing them out had to behave with genuine consideration of my needs and control the anger he certainly felt toward me. That takes maturity and control. But it doesn’t seemed to have curbed your bad behavior, as evidenced by your tone in this thread. Maybe you’d behave better if your folks had smacked you around a bit. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/31 "2008-10-10T18:20:18Z")
I think pseudotriton is a prime example of the weenie passive agressive “kindler, gentler” America that started in the 1980s. ---
**Author:** ![N.Sane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f19dbf/32.png) [@N.Sane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N.Sane)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/32 "2008-10-10T18:20:36Z")
There’s a difference between a spanking and a beating. I’ve gotten spankings, and I’ve been beaten. Spankings don’t leave welts or bruising. The biggest problem, imo, with spankings as a standard punishment is that the child will frequently assess whether the spanking is worth whatever it is s/he wants to do wrong. I know I did, as did my siblings. And FWIW, while I was a CPS caseworker in Texas, we were not permitted to tell parents they couldn’t spank their children. We were encouraged to suggest alternative means of discipline, and hope they followed them, but they were allowed to spank their children if they wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/33 "2008-10-10T18:20:41Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > You can’t unsay things, either. Sure you can. If I were to announce that I was off my meds today, and begged everyone’s forgiveness for wasting their time with all this silly child-abuse nonsense, and (to demonstrate my sincerity) offered a hardbound copy of my book “How to beat your child senseless and get away with it” to any Doper who requested a copy, and autograph it for you, and you thought it was a beautiful statement expressing one of your most revered legal principles and you believed me perfectly sincere in my apology, I think you’d call that unsaying what I’ve said here today. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/34 "2008-10-10T18:22:50Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Well, if he disagrees, as I suspect he might, let him come in here holding his head up proudly and discuss those practices that I find so thoroughly uncivilized. It is kind of chickenshit to say “I do it, but I don’t want to talk about it,” don’t you think? Not when the person concerned has already been thoroughly insulted. I suspect I too would not exactly be motivated to talk to someone who’s already called me those various things in their opening gambit, and I further suspect that beginning by insulting the opposing side and then, when they respond negatively, telling them “up yours” and calling them chickenshit would provide a pretty strong reason other than cowardice to not want to speak with you. Perhaps in future you should take your own advice; if you have a certain opinion, come in here holding your head up high proudly and discuss those practices, without electing to liberally sprinkle your OP with insults, or indeed opening it in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/35 "2008-10-10T18:22:55Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > It’s a self-serving rationalization. If it’s so deeply embarrassing to be spanked in public, then why not administer one swat on the butt publicly instead of four or seven privately? That should teach them, and do less physical harm, are save your wear and tear on your beating hand, and drive home your sincere object lesson all that more sharply. > > The sole reason that virtually all child abuse takes place behind closed doors, as **Airman Doors** confirms, is that some snooping ACLU-loving witch of a nosy, busybody neighbor will intercede on the child’s behalf and call the law. “it’s a family matter,” “It doesn’t concern you,” “Mind your own damned business” are just code for “Nobody must ever know of this,” which clearly serves the abusive parent’s interest above all. The spankings I received were not abuse. They were rare and not done in anger. The goal was not embarrassment, hence the privacy. (By privacy I mean they were administered behind closed doors, apart from the other siblings) I agree with your assessment of child abuse, but disagree that spanking a child qualifies as abuse. In my own case, as I said, it wasn’t a case of ‘nobody must ever know!’ but rather that the punishment itself was given in private as this gave us an opportunity to talk about why the spanking was being given, what the expectations were in future as well as to save us the embarrassment of being spanked in front of other people. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/36 "2008-10-10T18:23:47Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Sure you can. If I were to announce that I was off my meds today, and begged everyone’s forgiveness for wasting their time with all this silly child-abuse nonsense, and (to demonstrate my sincerity) offered a hardbound copy of my book “How to beat your child senseless and get away with it” to any Doper who requested a copy, and autograph it for you, and you thought it was a beautiful statement expressing one of your most revered legal principles and you believed me perfectly sincere in my apology, I think you’d call that unsaying what I’ve said here today. No, that’s not unsaying. That’s just offering an excuse for what you said. Everybody would still remember what you said and those whom you’ve angered would likely still be angry. I, for example, will not come in on your side in this thread just because you are a jerk; even though under all your shitty attitude you are right about a few things. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/37 "2008-10-10T18:24:20Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > The sole reason that virtually all child abuse takes place behind closed doors, as **Airman Doors** confirms, is that some snooping ACLU-loving witch of a nosy, busybody neighbor will intercede on the child’s behalf and call the law. “it’s a family matter,” “It doesn’t concern you,” “Mind your own damned business” are just code for “Nobody must ever know of this,” which clearly serves the abusive parent’s interest above all. I confirmed nothing of the sort. What I confirmed is that I’ve seen a parent administer a single swat to the bottom of a child behaving badly, which resulted in a call to the cops from some busybody who thought that they knew better than the parent did how to discipline their child. If you see someone beating the snot out of their kid, call the cops. But one swat does not constitute a beating unless it’s a busybody zealot like you. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/38 "2008-10-10T18:24:38Z")
> [@Bambro](#): > > But it doesn’t seemed to have curbed your bad behavior, as evidenced by your tone in this thread. Maybe you’d behave better if your folks had smacked you around a bit. Omigawd! I’ve adopted an unpleasant tone in a pit thread? You’re so right! Maybe I’ll beat my own head against the brick wall here to teach myself a lesson. I don’t understand how this happened. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/39 "2008-10-10T18:25:28Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > No, my point is that words hurt. But if they are wrongly adminstered, they can always be taken back, and sincerely apologized for. Not so with beatings—no matter what, a parent can’t even take a beating back. > > Well, he or she can, I suppose, but few parents would volunteer to take a beating at their grown child’s hand, and no sane grown child would administer such a beating. > > The harshest punishments I’ve ever gotten were when someone I loved expressed disappointment in me, and the very harshest were when the disappointment was deserved. Those were leaning experiences, and the person dishing them out had to behave with genuine consideration of my needs and control the anger he certainly felt toward me. That takes maturity and control. Words can’t be “taken back”. You fucking idiot. I am sorry, I take it back. See, still provoked an emotional response and my later statement did not erase the harsh words from memory. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/40 "2008-10-10T18:27:51Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Sure you can. If I were to announce that I was off my meds today, and begged everyone’s forgiveness for wasting their time with all this silly child-abuse nonsense, and (to demonstrate my sincerity) offered a hardbound copy of my book “How to beat your child senseless and get away with it” to any Doper who requested a copy, and autograph it for you, and you thought it was a beautiful statement expressing one of your most revered legal principles and you believed me perfectly sincere in my apology, I think you’d call that unsaying what I’ve said here today. Except, in this analogy: A) I’m not your kid, so there’s no emotional considerations to take into account… B) I’m an emotionally mature adult, better able to objectively evaluate events (at least, I assume I am)… C) Your anti-spanking preaching was not delivered as a disciplinary measure to something I did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345.md?page=3)