# Invitation to all child-beaters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345 "2008-10-10T17:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/101 "2008-10-10T20:24:16Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > So report me, shit-for-brains. I’m not big on reporting other members and there is already a moderator posting a warning to all in the thread anyway. What is your purpose in all this anyway? Your posts indicate you don’t have any real interest in persuading others that your opinion is correct. Do you just enjoy being the center of any kind of attention? Does this, somehow, relate back to your childhood issues? The only time daddy paid attention to you was when he was angry, so you’d rather have people here be angry at you than ignore you? Maybe you just like making other people angry. That takes us back to you being a jerk or, perhaps, a troll…though it is certainly possible for you to be both. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/102 "2008-10-10T20:26:13Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > You’re right. I lost track coping with all the hijacks and diversions. My bad. > > Absolutely right. > > It was a weird one-time tantrum–she was a very calm, reasonable child. That was the only major fit I can remember her throwing, or at least the only one I had a hard time dealing with. > > Hmmm. One light swat on a covered butt–sounds more surprising than painful. I wonder about the effectiveness of surprising him, if that’s what you did, especially since you just admonished me for not discussing what would happen with my daughter. Or did you warn him about he consequences of not getting back into bed immediately and just neglected to include that detail? He was forewarned of the consequences of each choice. My kids know in advance all of the results of their actions or inactions (positive and negative consequences as well). He still got a spanking. Are you now seeing a difference between beating a child and a swat on a covered butt? You certainly did not come across as having that level of vision in any of your prior posts. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/103 "2008-10-10T20:30:02Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Tell you what: I’ll start. I arrived at a restaurant with two kids (ages 4 and 8) in need of lunch, but the younger one threw a fit for some unknowable reason and refused to leave the car. Her sister was hungry (as was I) and I didn’t feel comfortable leaving her in the car as we ate. Every time I tried pulling her out, she would cling to the seats, and I saw that I was hurting her in extracting her from the car–besides I couldn’t think of a way to get her to behave any better inside the restaurant if I were to carry her in there. So I decided to put her in her safe and secure child-seat, strap her in good and proper, and leave her in the car while we grabbed a quick lunch. > > So far, so good, right? No child abuse, no hitting, a lot of arguing and persuasion, to no avail. But it was very hard getting her to sit in the child-seat, and I handled her roughly in doing so. I pushed her back, I held her down while doing the straps, and I wasn’t particularly gentle about it. > > When I got her trussed up good and proper, she very angrily told me “You’re a mean daddy.” > > She was right. In retrospect, I should have simply driven on to the drive-in restaurant a few miles down the road, and ordered food for my kids there, but I got it in my head that we were going to have lunch in this non-drivethru place, and I stubbornly stuck to that. Er…maybe I’m missing something, but wouldn’t you have had to put her back into the car seat anyway to go to the drive in restaurant? Either way, she’s going into the car seat so manhandling’s unavoidable. Also, wouldn’t leaving her in a car alone be worse than pushing her in or out of a car seat? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/104 "2008-10-10T20:31:25Z")
> [@autz](#): > > I don’t need a parallel universe. That’s too bad, because you have one. Here. This thread. We can reconsider what we’ve done, and how we might have done it better. > [@](#): > > I tried talking to him, reading the sign, and explaining to him why he shouldn’t climb the fence. To no avail. > > Then I tried swats. More successful. Okay, but a little unresponsive. I’m not for a second accusing you of whacking your kid BEFORE he misbehaved. But at the point of swatting him, could have tried another approach, lasting for a minute or less, before swatting? Put another way, if there had been a Child Protective Services van there, scanning you at that moment through binoculars and taking notes, might you have (for the worst, most insincere reasons in the world, violating all principles of parental rights to discipline as they choose) done something else in that minute? if so, what would have that choice have been? [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > Just because I spank doesn’t mean it’s the only method of discipline I ever use. I have several to choose from. Time out, discussion, spankings, grounding, loss of priveledge, etc. Of course it isn’t the only method you choose. Sorry if I implied anywhere that I thought it was. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/105 "2008-10-10T20:32:33Z")
I don’t have kids, but I can tell you that while I was spanked by my father (most recently at 12), and not at all that I can remember by my mother, my mother always intimidated me when I was growing up a lot more than my father did. And, in case you were wondering, I don’t think either of them abused me, physically, verbally, emotionally or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/106 "2008-10-10T20:35:25Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’m not big on reporting other members and there is already a moderator posting a warning to all in the thread anyway. > > What is your purpose in all this anyway? Your posts indicate you don’t have any real interest in persuading others that your opinion is correct. Do you just enjoy being the center of any kind of attention? Does this, somehow, relate back to your childhood issues? The only time daddy paid attention to you was when he was angry, so you’d rather have people here be angry at you than ignore you? > Maybe you just like making other people angry. That takes us back to you being a jerk or, perhaps, a troll…though it is certainly possible for you to be both. Um, fuck off, then? You’re a coward and a bully. The only reason you’re not reporting me for my “tone” in GD is that my tone there was entirely appropriate and it would be a total waste of your time. I don’t have to justify my purpose to the likes of you, fuckwit, and I would refuse to do so if I thought it would give you pleasure. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/107 "2008-10-10T20:38:15Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Are you now seeing a difference between beating a child and a swat on a covered butt? You certainly did not come across as having that level of vision in any of your prior posts. Sorry I wasn’t clearer. I see differences between lots of things, often things that other people lump together. But I categorize too. Kill thirty innocent victims, or kill thirty-one, I’m going to call you a killer. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/108 "2008-10-10T20:41:28Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Er…maybe I’m missing something, but wouldn’t you have had to put her back into the car seat anyway to go to the drive in restaurant? Either way, she’s going into the car seat so manhandling’s unavoidable. > > Also, wouldn’t leaving her in a car alone be worse than pushing her in or out of a car seat? She was carrying on before I ever got her out of the damned seat. Leaving her in the car alone wasn’t too smart, though I see the car (though not her) from the restaurant, and I did leave the driver’s side window open. Still and all, not a good decision on my part. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/109 "2008-10-10T20:42:31Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > That’s too bad, because you have one. Here. This thread. We can reconsider what we’ve done, and how we might have done it better. > > Okay, but a little unresponsive. I’m not for a second accusing you of whacking your kid BEFORE he misbehaved. But at the point of swatting him, could have tried another approach, lasting for a minute or less, before swatting? > > Put another way, if there had been a Child Protective Services van there, scanning you at that moment through binoculars and taking notes, might you have (for the worst, most insincere reasons in the world, violating all principles of parental rights to discipline as they choose) done something else in that minute? if so, what would have that choice have been? Of course it isn’t the only method you choose. Sorry if I implied anywhere that I thought it was. [/QUOTE] I would have reacted the same if CPS was watching. I’m not the slightest embarressed and have no fear that I did anything wrong. You seem to misunderstand what happened. He acted up once, we tried the talking, it didn’t work. He acted up twice, we tried the spanking, it worked. That is why I don’t need a time machine to see which worked better in the circumstances. I tried both, one no lasting positive reaction, one did. Now, I am going to take my beastie-children to the library. I anticipate no spanking to occur. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/110 "2008-10-10T20:44:29Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Sorry I wasn’t clearer. I see differences between lots of things, often things that other people lump together. But I categorize too. Kill thirty innocent victims, or kill thirty-one, I’m going to call you a killer. So to be clear, given that I have admitted that I gave my 5 year-old a light swat on the butt - I am a child abuser in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/111 "2008-10-10T20:47:31Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Um, fuck off, then? You’re a coward and a bully. The only reason you’re not reporting me for my “tone” in GD is that my tone there was entirely appropriate and it would be a total waste of your time. > > I don’t have to justify my purpose to the likes of you, fuckwit, and I would refuse to do so if I thought it would give you pleasure. There you go with that shit again. First I was a coward and bully when you, on no evidence, concluded that I beat my daughter. I explained to you that I do not spank, nor do I believe in it, and yet you spew that I’m a coward and a bully anyway. Yep, you’re definitely a jerk, a troll, and (I suspect) a whole pile of cognitive and psychological problems wadded up into one tiny, mishapen wad. Honesty and integrity are beyond you, I think. A more civil tone with others is maybe something you could achieve. ---
**Author:** ![Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/13edae/32.png) [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interconnected_Series_of_Tubes)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/112 "2008-10-10T20:48:20Z")
Hold on, I’ll be right back. Tough to post with all this toddler blood on the keys, you understand. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/113 "2008-10-10T20:49:15Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > Am I understanding correctly that you left your 4 year old in the car while you went in and ate? I just ask because my wife, as a Children’s Aid Worker, has told me that mild physical punishment is neither against the law, nor something for which they will open a case. > > But leaving your child unattended in a car will get you a visit from the authorities and CAS. > > Just wondering. It’s possible that I was doing something illegal. As I say, the window was open and the car was in my sight, but maybe I was risking arrest. I never said that all physical punishment was child abuse that would positively qualify for state attention. In fact, I several times said that the law would tell you to get the hell out of there if you volunteered the mildest potential abuse you suspected of yourself. But my point is that parents aren’t always the best judge of where lawful discipline crosses over into child abuse. For me, the best tack is to avoid that whole area as best I can, and stick with talking for as long as I can. Fortunately, I’m very verbal. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/114 "2008-10-10T20:50:29Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > There you go with that shit again. First I was a coward and bully when you, on no evidence, concluded that I beat my daughter. I explained to you that I do not spank, nor do I believe in it, and yet you spew that I’m a coward and a bully anyway. Yep, you’re definitely a jerk, a troll, and (I suspect) a whole pile of cognitive and psychological problems wadded up into one tiny, mishapen wad. Honesty and integrity are beyond you, I think. A more civil tone with others is maybe something you could achieve. What part of “fuck off” do you need explained? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/115 "2008-10-10T20:51:42Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > What part of “fuck off” do you need explained? Have you ever been diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/116 "2008-10-10T20:56:50Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > So to be clear, given that I have admitted that I gave my 5 year-old a light swat on the butt - I am a child abuser in your opinion? From what you’ve written here? I can’t know for sure, of course, but I would doubt that very much. If you’d swatted him several times a day, every day, a good hard swat, or several swats, of course, I’d wonder if you had potential for abuse. But based on what you’ve written? That would be silly. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/117 "2008-10-10T21:00:16Z")
Exactly what the child did to provoke your assault After several warnings and time outs, and the announcement that if she did it again, she was going to be spanked, she opened the cupboard where my asshole housemate kept his live ammo, black powder and other firearms things. Without any child locks, let alone gun safes. how old the child was About 18-24 months old. whether your physical response was immediate, or whether you considered carefully all of your possible options It was immediate. After all, I’d told her, ahead of time, what the continued consequences would be if she didn’t leave those cupboards alone. how you decided on the exact duration of the punishment–i.e. only three slaps, or using a open palm instead of a closed fist. It was what I told her would happen if she continued to open the cupboard. In the event it was a single swat, on her diapered bottom. Shocked the Hell out of her, but I still don’t believe it hurt her. Whether you were dispassionate in adminstering the punishment, or in a state of emotional turmoil yourself Dispassionate in my actions and voice. Resigned, too. What you felt would surely be accomplished by physical chastisement that mere verbal or non-painful punishment (deprivation of privileges, grounding, etc.) could never accomplish That she would stop going to the cupboard and trying to open it. Whether you’re satisfied that your desired lesson was learned Yes. She left that cupboard alone after that. I also _finally_ got my asshole housemate to accept that he couldn’t keep his fucking ammo, black powder, and for all I knew spare firearms, in an unlocked cupboard in the fucking play room. FTR - I am not the child’s parent, I was simply the primary care-giver at the time, because both my housemates at the time (her parents) were working full time, or close to it. The whole ridiculous situation came about because the asshole housemate was the home owner of record and refused to either move his fucking ammo, or allow anyone to install child locks on the cupboard. He had also threatened to call the cops on me if I touched his stuff. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/118 "2008-10-10T21:03:25Z")
I accept your invitation. What are we having? Tot almondine? Infant Under Glass? Suckling Long Pig? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/119 "2008-10-10T21:10:18Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Is bare bottom spanking of my then 38 year-old wife pretending to be a naughty 16 year-old catholic school girl count? 😛 I dunno. Lets explore this for a while, with some links to pics. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345/120 "2008-10-10T21:22:55Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > After several warnings and time outs, and the announcement that if she did it again, she was going to be spanked, she opened the cupboard where my asshole housemate kept his live ammo, black powder and other firearms things. This is a beauty. You’ve got life-threatening consquences if compliance is not assured, a non-compliant child well before the age of reason, and a situation very much of not of the adult’s making. Let me clarify some things–was there some reason you couldn’t have removed the child from the premises? Placed some heavy object to bar the cupboard? In short , what alternatives did you reject, if any? And after punishing the child as you did, did you continue to watch her carefully? I’m not quite following how you could be so certain of compliance, even after physically punishing her, that you would leave her alone in the room with access to the cupboard, and if you were what exactly you did after punishing her to make sure she couldn’t get at the guns. I’m thinking that an irrational child, pissed off, might just spitefully do what she had just been punished for, unless you continued monitoring her closely–in which case, isn’t that what you would have had to do anyway, without hitting her? Clear up what I’m not seeing here, please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/invitation-to-all-child-beaters/467345.md?page=7)