# IOKIADDI (It's OK If A Democrat Does It)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2013, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622 "2013-08-19T08:47:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/81 "2013-08-20T13:52:28Z")
The Edwards story came out when he was already a _private citizen_, remember? Now how is that comparable to anything? There’s just not much point for the media or anyone to hound one of those except out of prurience. There’s no payoff, either - there can’t be a satisfying denouement of a powerful pol resigning in disgrace to report on. The Menendez child-prostitution “story” turned out to be a politically-motivated lie, as you may recall. Or you may not, depending on who you use for a news source. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/82 "2013-08-20T14:17:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Edwards story came out when he was already a _private citizen_, remember? He was a private citizen running for president, so there’s no element of official wrongdoing or misuse of public funds, but it’s not much of an argument. Herman Cain was a private citizen when a small parade of women accused him of sexual harassment and that was a big deal. There was nothing to the Menendez story, and the lack of coverage suggests most news outlets (the ones without an anti-Democrat axe to grind) didn’t think there was enough the story. They were right, and treating the accusation as credible would’ve been poor journalism. Maybe they should get credit for looking into the accusations and getting one right for a change since the entire thing was not just false, but made up as a smear. The Times did a bad job with the McCain/lobbyist story and that’s pretty much all there is to it. A story saying he had close ties to a lobbyist could’ve been worthwhile in some contexts, but they had no basis to suggest they might’ve been having an affair. “Some aides were worried about it” was not enough to justify reporting it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/83 "2013-08-20T15:09:42Z")
If there is anything that is objectively evident from this thread, it’s that Democrats get it _worse_. Show me the Democratic David Vitter. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/84 "2013-08-20T15:19:31Z")
Barney Frank? [It’s not clear what you mean by “worse”. It’s not like the Vitter story was hushed up by anyone. The voters do what they do.] ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/85 "2013-08-20T15:24:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There was nothing to the Menendez story, and the lack of coverage suggests most news outlets (the ones without an anti-Democrat axe to grind) didn’t think there was enough the story. They were right, and treating the accusation as credible would’ve been poor journalism. Maybe they should get credit for looking into the accusations and getting one right for a change since the entire thing was not just false, but made up as a smear. The Times did a bad job with the McCain/lobbyist story and that’s pretty much all there is to it. A story saying he had close ties to a lobbyist could’ve been worthwhile in some contexts, but they had no basis to suggest they might’ve been having an affair. “Some aides were worried about it” was not enough to justify reporting it that way. The context here is not that anyone is claiming that the Menendez story should have been reported. The suggestion is that it might have been reported had he been a Republican, ala CBS with GWB and the NYT with McCain. But maybe not. The guy who brought up Menendez was Ravenman, who claimed that “the Washington Post, NBC, and CBS did multiple stories on Senator Bob Menendez visiting underage prostitutes” in an attempt to prove that the media treats Democrats as harshly as Republicans. I’m questioning whether his facts are true and observing that - if anything - the incident would seem to show the opposite of his claim. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/86 "2013-08-20T15:30:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The context here is not that anyone is claiming that the Menendez story should have been reported. The suggestion is that it might have been reported had he been a Republican, ala CBS with GWB and the NYT with McCain. > > But maybe not. The guy who brought up Menendez was Ravenman, who claimed that “the Washington Post, NBC, and CBS did multiple stories on Senator Bob Menendez visiting underage prostitutes” in an attempt to prove that the media treats Democrats as harshly as Republicans. I’m questioning whether his facts are true and observing that - if anything - the incident would seem to show the opposite of his claim. That’s fair. I hadn’t followed your discussion closely enough. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/87 "2013-08-20T15:35:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The media is strongly pro-Republican. I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there. Comedy gold! ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/88 "2013-08-20T15:37:44Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Gee, I’d have to guess the media was guilty for not calling Al Gore and John Kerry cowards for serving in Vietnam while making sure everyone remembered that George W. Bush spent his time in the National Guard keeping Houston safe from Communist air raids and was eventually suspended for not even showing up.:rolleyes: Good grief. Are you still beating that dead horse? I’m surprised that there is any meat left on the bones. That was debunked as a total lie years ago. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/89 "2013-08-20T15:58:09Z")
[Explain it to Cecil.](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.straightdope.com%2Fcolumns%2Fread%2F2446%2Fdid-george-w-bush-go-awol-during-his-time-in-the-national-guard&ei=3JETUsy4D6XayAHdwIDAAw&usg=AFQjCNE-FJGKZGvz-InnhdW_0jwjE7S4uA&sig2=smqhj-O4JibNTH2YXu5svA&bvm=bv.50952593,d.dmg) ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/90 "2013-08-20T16:12:46Z")
You guys seem to be hung up on scandals. I’m thinking more in terms of my stereotypical conception of what a Democrat looks like. For example, I tend to think that Republicans have a completely unearned reputation for fiscal rectitude. They act like they’re the responsible daddies who will take mommy Democrat’s credit card away and make the tough spending decisions, yet when they gain control over the government they spend like drunken sailors. They seem to have built-in credibility when it comes to fiscal matters, when the evidence suggests irresponsibility. As for Democrats, I’ve noticed that nominally liberal types in the school reform/charter school movement keep managing to spread their grift to new marks, despite all the evidence that the “reform” doesn’t make the schools better and is mainly about busting teacher unions and lining the pockets of the reformers. It seems like Republican reformers get called out faster, probably because their reform efforts always seem to involve religion. But neoliberal hucksters have had a pretty good track record in getting states and school districts to buy in, and for landing on their feet when the voters wise up and give them the boot. Broadly speaking, I’d say that Democratic party has retained much of its credibility on labor issues, even as the party’s actual support for labor has waned as they’ve come to rely more on Wall Street and corporations for campaign funding as union membership declines. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/91 "2013-08-20T16:13:37Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Good grief. Are you still beating that dead horse? I’m surprised that there is any meat left on the bones. > > That was debunked as a total lie years ago. I forget-which alternate Earth do you hail from, again? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/92 "2013-08-20T16:25:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Bull. When three women accused the mayor of a large city of sexual harassment _at a press conference_, it was big news. Not really. It was a big local story but the national media didn’t really dig in until about a week later. I think Politico and Washington Post covered the story but the shit hit the fan when Dems on Capitol Hill started calling for his resignation. As I previously pointed out, the reporter who wrote the mea culpa states that reporters were aware of the “incessant” rumors floating around about Filner but didn’t bother to investigate. The story probably would have broken sooner if reporters would have done their jobs. > [@Marley23](#): > > I was saying it was stupid that the reporter didn’t ask. That said, he would have been lied to and there’s no reason to think anyone would have found out otherwise. (Weiner was using a private site this time, not Twitter, and he was caught because his ‘friend’ was unhappy and went public.) Of course it was stupid. The paper was too busy doing a fluff piece on Weiner and attempting to rehab his image to ask the most obvious question. Would he have lied? Of course…but that’s a poor excuse not to excercise due diligence in reporting. > [@Marley23](#): > > What’s _my_ point? Why did you mention this in the first place? You said Spitzer was caught up in a federal prosecution. I presume you mentioned this because it has something to do with the way the story broke, and I was pointing out that Vitter got caught the exact same way. The outcome was completely different. My original point, which I see is incorrect, was that Spitzer would have been outed by the federal investigation and the Times broke the story before that happened. Reading further it does not appear that the clients were going to be outed and, certainly, none were charged. That being said the results were the same for Spitzer and Vitter. Both took a pounding in the media. Why is Vitter still in office while Spitzer resigned? I don’t know other than Vitter got out ahead of the story and, maybe, it says something about the electorate of Louisiana. > [@Marley23](#): > > Words mean whatever I want them to mean, said Humpty Dumpty. Cute. But it does not change the fact that I have not changed the terms. I admitted my mistake. Now, please try to stay on topic as opposed to accusing me of doing something I did not do. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/93 "2013-08-20T16:29:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What are they counting as “liberal” shows? The shows distributed by the mainstream public radio producers—NPR, PRI, APM, etc.—are not liberal shows. The liberal shows are the Pacifica Radio shows, and I don’t think that most liberals listen to them. They didn’t count anything as ‘liberal’ shows. That was me. My reasoning was that conservatives see public radio as liberal, so I counted the public radio shows as such. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > > [@Clothahump](#): > > > > Good grief. Are you still beating that dead horse? I’m surprised that there is any meat left on the bones. > > > > That was debunked as a total lie years ago. > > [Explain it to Cecil.](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.straightdope.com%2Fcolumns%2Fread%2F2446%2Fdid-george-w-bush-go-awol-during-his-time-in-the-national-guard&ei=3JETUsy4D6XayAHdwIDAAw&usg=AFQjCNE-FJGKZGvz-InnhdW_0jwjE7S4uA&sig2=smqhj-O4JibNTH2YXu5svA&bvm=bv.50952593,d.dmg) IOKIARDI. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/94 "2013-08-20T16:34:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Did you read the Times’ story? Or their “note” on the story? Having read both last night, I’m pretty sure you didn’t, because you are mischaracterizing the story, the “note” (that’s not a retraction or correction), and the settlement. Well you would be wrong. I have read both the story and the note. The story was a drive-by hit job. Throw the rumor out there and wait for the sharks to smell the blood in the water. Of course, I didn’t reference the note or the settlement so I’m not sure how I mischaracterized those. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/95 "2013-08-20T16:43:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Good grief. Are you still beating that dead horse? I’m surprised that there is any meat left on the bones. > > That was debunked as a total lie years ago. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Explain it to Cecil.](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.straightdope.com%2Fcolumns%2Fread%2F2446%2Fdid-george-w-bush-go-awol-during-his-time-in-the-national-guard&ei=3JETUsy4D6XayAHdwIDAAw&usg=AFQjCNE-FJGKZGvz-InnhdW_0jwjE7S4uA&sig2=smqhj-O4JibNTH2YXu5svA&bvm=bv.50952593,d.dmg) What I think Mr. Hump refers to is the alleged forgeries which led to Dan Rather’s downfall. Great strategy by the Bush team! They knew the charges were true, constructed fake evidence for the true charges, and demonstrated the fakeness on cue. Outrage turned onto the fakers, assumed to be on Kerry’s team. That the charges were true even if that particular evidence was fake got ignored in the confusion. The audacity of that ploy suggests the cunning of Karl Rove might have been involved. I suggested this in a thread 2 years ago or so, in which the SDMB’s Republican Apologist-in-Chief made a fool of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/96 "2013-08-20T16:49:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He seems pretty well familiar with the concept: in almost every post of this thread, **yorick73** has changed the meaning of a word to suit his own purposes. Actually, as has been commonly the case, you are simply rejecting that words have meaning when you don’t want them to. Yes, yes, I know - isnotisnotisnotisnotisnot. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/97 "2013-08-20T16:52:44Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Why is Vitter still in office while Spitzer resigned? I don’t know other than Vitter got out ahead of the story and, maybe, it says something about the electorate of Louisiana. Other possibilities are: [ol] [li]Governor is more of a hands-on job than senator, so Spitzer had less opportunity to just lie low for a while.[/li][li]Spitzer built his entire career on his crime-fighting prosecutor’s resume (including anti-prostitution campaigns) so the hypocrisy stung worse in his case.[/li][li]To some extent it was just different decisions by different people. Perhaps Spitzer could have hung on.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/98 "2013-08-20T16:55:05Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Maybe this was an intractable topic all along, because it requires agreement on what constitutes a real scandal; and further, requires agreement on what constitutes real media scrutiny. Rep. Steve King of Iowa, for example, said that you’d have to add Iran Contra and Watergate together, and multiply that by ten, to even approach the magnitude of Benghazi. To the extent he actually believes that, presumably he’d say there’s IOKIADDI at work. I wouldn’t go nearly that far in characterizing Benghazi but I do think it would have gotten a lot more play, and reporters would have been at least a little intellectually curious, if it happened under a Republican administration. The media showed very little interest in getting to the bottom of this story from the start and don’t seem to be any more eager now. I thought when CNN ran [this story](http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/01/exclusive-dozens-of-cia-operatives-on-the-ground-during-benghazi-attack/) that the media would look a little deeper or, at least, ask the president one questions concerning the report during a press conference. Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/99 "2013-08-20T16:58:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, as has been commonly the case, you are simply rejecting that words have meaning when you don’t want them to. > > Yes, yes, I know - isnotisnotisnotisnotisnot. > > Regards, > Shodan It’s like chasing a squirrel around the back yard. Since something cannot be absolutely proven then it must not be the case. Or, unless the bias is absolute then there is no bias whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/100 "2013-08-20T17:03:01Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > It’s like chasing a squirrel around the back yard. Since something cannot be absolutely proven then it must not be the case. Or, unless the bias is absolute then there is no bias whatsoever. Or, the preponderance of the evidence shows that your perception is incorrect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622.md?page=6)