# IOKIADDI (It's OK If A Democrat Does It)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2013, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622 "2013-08-19T08:47:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/121 "2013-08-20T19:05:54Z")
Dude. It’s _over_. You guys _lost_. Again. OK? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/122 "2013-08-20T19:09:36Z")
Well. I’m OK with that. Took me a while to get over it, what with the hangover, and all, but yeah, I’m OK with it now. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/123 "2013-08-20T19:10:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, you believe she was following what the White House told her, just that the error was unknown to the White House? That’s not what I believe, that’s _the facts._ The accusation was that the CIA concluded right away that the attacks were carried out by terrorists and the White House rewrote Rice’s talking points to omit this unfavorable fact. Despite some breathless “oops, I misunderstood my source and repeated what he said verbatim!” reporting, that turned out not to be the case. The CIA had not come to that conclusion at that time. There was also a claim that Rice said the entire attack was spontaneous. That one was just a willful misinterpretation of what she said. Nothing factual came of it- just another vague scandal/media cover up claim and the scuttling of Rice’s nomination as secretary of state. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/124 "2013-08-20T19:13:47Z")
There was also the shrill accusation that Obama refused to call it “terrorism”, since his press statement used the words “act of terror” instead. :rolleyes: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/125 "2013-08-20T20:01:12Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > The press showed very little interest in the basics of the entire Benghazi story including the latest CNN story or trying to get anything from the survivors. Just a complete lack of curiosity. My guess is that they are afraid of what they will find. The Atlantic has a fairly [in-depth article](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/whopper-of-the-year-the-mainstream-media-ignored-benghazi/278351/)examining to what extent the lamestream media actually ignored Benghazi. In sum, there’s ample evidence that they definitely did NOT ignore it. I will grant that the news from CNN raises the prospect of a different kind of cover-up around Benghazi (one only incidentally related to the attack per se): that the CIA was in fact engaged in potentially dubious activity over there to begin with (e.g. covertly moving weapons to Syria?) and that the attack in Benghazi happened to focus unwanted public attention on that particular area of operation. OTOH, frankly the CNN article in my book isn’t all that well reported–mostly it’s just one unnamed source saying the CIA /really/ doesn’t want its people talking about this operation, God knows why–so I can’t blame other reporters for not diving into the story. And no one is stopping CNN’s own reporters from hammering further on it, if they have sources/info no one else has. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/126 "2013-08-20T20:41:43Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You’ll notice that the “right wing source” refers to a NYT editorial which they felt should have spurred the networks into a frenzy of stories, but that NYT editorial mentioned only the financial angle and steered clear of the prostitution angle, which indicates that this source was lumping the two together. So you need to establish that the “seven stories” mentioned were about the prostitution angle, and not about the influence peddling like the NYT. No, you’re wrong. The right wing source is not the New York Times, it is the website of the Media Research Center, and this is how they describe themselves: “MRC’s sole mission is to expose and neutralize the propaganda arm of the Left: the national news media.” What I quoted was the Media Research Center stating that two networks ran seven stories on McCain. The MRC did not state in that article that those seven stories were qualitatively deficient. If you want to take the MRC to task for being too soft on NBC and CBS reporting, be my guest… but if a right wing publication doesn’t criticize the content of stories from the “propaganda arm of the Left,” I’m not inclined to conclude that they are being too easy on NBC and CBS. > [@](#): > > “Story on it” is misleading. Those are fair criticism of the WaPo articles. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/127 "2013-08-20T21:00:59Z")
I’d say the current mayor of San Diego is a good example of this (“Filthy” Filner). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/128 "2013-08-20T21:03:48Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I’d say the current mayor of San Diego is a good example of this (“Filthy” Filner). Have you read any other posts? He’s been roundly condemned by everybody, the news coverage has been extensive, and he’ll be forced out of office pretty soon. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/129 "2013-08-20T21:15:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > No, you’re wrong. The right wing source is not the New York Times, it is the website of the Media Research Center, and this is how they describe themselves: “MRC’s sole mission is to expose and neutralize the propaganda arm of the Left: the national news media.” > > What I quoted was the Media Research Center stating that two networks ran seven stories on McCain. The MRC did not state in that article that those seven stories were qualitatively deficient. If you want to take the MRC to task for being too soft on NBC and CBS reporting, be my guest… but if a right wing publication doesn’t criticize the content of stories from the “propaganda arm of the Left,” I’m not inclined to conclude that they are being too easy on NBC and CBS. So you’re saying, if I understand you correctly, that you’re basing your claim that there were reports about it - which neither you nor I have been able to find online - on your assumption that a right wing source would be as harsh on the media as possible, so if they didn’t criticize the media for writing zero articles about the prostitution angle, then the media must have written some. I don’t think there’s much in that. But I suppose it depends on your assumptions going in about right wing sources. If you assume that any right wing source would take a rabid dog all out attack mode about anything, then perhaps it makes some sense. FWIW, [here’s](http://lonelyconservative.com/2013/01/nbs-reports-on-menendezs-flights-to-dominican-republic-doesnt-mention-underage-prostitutes/) a different RW source complaining of this very thing - that NBC covered the Menendez scandal but failed to mention the sex angle. That article is dated 1/31, so I guess it’s possible that NBC started to mention it between then and 2/11. But my guess is that this is one of the 7 stories mentioned by the RW source, which were focused on the financial angle. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/130 "2013-08-20T21:58:39Z")
Just as a general question, do you think the Media Research Center is a reputable organization doing a pretty good job at what they intend to do? Or would you say they are more like extremists with an ad to grind? Because my impression of them is definitely the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/131 "2013-08-20T22:00:15Z")
Never heard of them (that I can remember). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/132 "2013-08-20T23:58:47Z")
They have a web site, offering acess to Brent Bozell’s opinions. Also, hamburgers. I could link you to the site, but feel somehow that would be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/133 "2013-08-21T01:33:03Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Just as a general question, do you think the Media Research Center is a reputable organization doing a pretty good job at what they intend to do? Or would you say they are more like extremists with an ad to grind? Because my impression of them is definitely the latter. [RationalWiki sez:](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Media_Research_Center) > [@](#): > > **In their own words** > > > [@](#): > > > > The mission of the Media Research Center is to bring balance to the news media. Leaders of America’s conservative movement have long believed that within the national news media a strident liberal bias existed that influenced the public’s understanding of critical issues. On October 1, 1987, a group of young determined conservatives set out to not only prove — through sound scientific research — that liberal bias in the media does exist and undermines traditional American values, but also to neutralize its impact on the American political scene. What they launched that fall is the now acclaimed.[1] > > **Ideology** > > - Homophobia and other positions of fundamentalist Christianity > - Apologetics for Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, and Fox News > - Persistent criticism of Barack Obama > - The media didn’t cover all those Bill Clinton scandals > - Jon Stewart is a big meanie and he’s in charge of leading the War on Christmas, just like the 7,873 other guys who _previously_ led it.[2] > > **Projects** > > The MRC runs a conservative-leaning “news” site, CNS News. Also the MRC’s Business and Media Institute complains about how the media isn’t 100% in line with the free market ideology, while at the same time demanded the government censor “smut”. The Culture and Media Institute vents and reminisces for the good old days when gays had to stay in the closet and ladies saved themselves for marriage. But this, from [SourceWatch](http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Media_Research_Center), is most damning of all: > [@](#): > > **Defense of ALEC** > > Following the publication of a Bloomberg Businessweek article examining and criticizing the American Legislative Exchange Council, (ALEC), MRC immediately came to ALEC’s defense. MRC’s Iris Somberg accused the authors of the article of accepting “the liberal mantra that corporations are evil and buy support through shadowy groups” and asserted that the article “is thick with one-sided caricatures of conservative policies could have easily been written by a left-wing blogger.” [7] > > But the MRC piece itself is almost a caricature of the Businessweek article. It alleges that Businessweek authors Brendan Greeley and Alison Fitzgerald find ALEC sinister because it is a “non-profit that promotes limited government, free markets, and federalism.” But it ignores the authors’ pointed critiques that show ALEC is less about limited government and free markets and more about using government to benefit ALEC’s corporate members. For example, the Business week article discusses how the Republican mayor of Lafayette, Louisiana had plans to provide high-speed internet to his rural constituents, but was thwarted by a lobbyist pushing a corporate-sponsored ALEC bill through the Louisiana legislature that would block local government efforts to expand broadband. The Businessweek article points out the bill “was not designed to level the playing field,” but to protect entrenched telecommunications interests at the expense of the public interest. > > But rather than criticizing the Businessweek article on the merits, or countering the claims that its author’s make, MRC’s Somberg sets up a convoluted ad hominem. Somberg writes that groups cited in the article had received funding from the Open Society Foundations of George Soros, but does not actually dispute any thing those groups say. (One of the groups Somberg criticizes is the Center for Media and Democracy, which publishes [ALECexposed.org](http://ALECexposed.org) as well as [Sourcewatch.org](http://Sourcewatch.org). CMD’s Open Society grant is not used for its ALEC project, and instead goes towards the national security and surveillance research of CMD’s Executive Director, Lisa Graves, who has testified before Congress on such issues.) > > The MRC article condescendingly states that the Businessweek authors say that ALEC receives funding from Exxon Mobil (“Nothing says evil like Big Oil cash,” Somberg writes), perhaps to set up some sort of false equivalency with other groups indirectly receiving Soros money. But Exxon Mobil is only one of many corporations mentioned in the Businessweek article that fund ALEC. MRC does not mention that ALEC is led by lobbyists, and gets 98% of its funding from corporate interests. The problem with ALEC’s corporate funding is not just with the funding per se, but with the fact that those dollars are being used to influence elected officials, and to push laws that govern the lives of all Americans designed to benefit the corporate bottom line. That is hardly comparable to a philanthropist helping fund online investigative journalism organizations. > > The original Businessweek article can be found [Here](http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/pssst-wanna-buy-a-law-12012011.html) > > **About ALEC** > > ALEC is a corporate bill mill. It is not just a lobby or a front group; it is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, corporations hand state legislators their wishlists to benefit their bottom line. Corporations fund almost all of ALEC’s operations. They pay for a seat on ALEC task forces where corporate lobbyists and special interest reps vote with elected officials to approve “model” bills. Learn more at the Center for Media and Democracy’s [ALECexposed.org](http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed), and check out breaking news on our [PRWatch.org](http://www.prwatch.org/) site. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/134 "2013-08-21T04:13:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There was also the shrill accusation that Obama refused to call it “terrorism”, since his press statement used the words “act of terror” instead. :rolleyes: 😃 The talking points issued to Rice said otherwise. You have to be barking to suggest they were not expressly choreographed from the WH. This is the view from the WH specifically for public consumption. The question to ask is why did they deliberately send her out with a BS story. the answer is pretty obvious, 8 hrs of attacks and no support. The WH did nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/135 "2013-08-21T04:17:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The question to ask is why did they deliberately send her out with a BS story. The answer is that the situation hadn’t been fully assessed yet because that takes time. Unfortunately that’s not a damning enough answer, so the coverup story was invented. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/136 "2013-08-21T04:23:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You have to be barking Is that another way to say you haven’t found Kerry’s lie yet? 😉 > [@](#): > > the answer is pretty obvious, 8 hrs of attacks and no support. The WH did nothing. Is this the part where you show us what they could and should have done but chose not to? We’re all still waiting for that one, too. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/137 "2013-08-21T07:02:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The answer is that the situation hadn’t been fully assessed yet because that takes time. Unfortunately that’s not a damning enough answer, so the coverup story was invented. the situation was readily apparent. they were under heavy fire. There was no indication of a protest. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/138 "2013-08-21T07:17:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Is that another way to say you haven’t found Kerry’s lie yet? 😉 I already cited his testimony without evidence given before Congress. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Is this the part where you show us what they could and should have done but chose not to? We’re all still waiting for that one, too. You mean besides the group specifically trained to deal with such events (FAST) that was sent 8 hrs after the attack started? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/139 "2013-08-21T07:21:06Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Is this the part where you show us what they could and should have done but chose not to? We’re all still waiting for that one, too. or the lack of support after the previous attacks: [Security Incidents Prior to the Benghazi Attack](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57544719/benghazi-timeline-how-the-attack-unfolded/) December 2011: Terror plot thwarted, but Benghazi emergency plan warns of many Islamic terrorists still operating in area. March 2012: U.S. Embassy in Tripoli lead security officer, RSO Eric Nordstrom, requests additional security but later testified he received no response. April 10, 2012: An explosive device is thrown at a convoy carrying U.N. envoy Ian Martin. May 22, 2012: A rocket-propelled grenade hits the offices of the International Red Cross. June 6, 2012: An IED explodes outside the Benghazi consulate compound. June 11, 2012: An RPG hits a convoy carrying the British Ambassador. The U.K. closes its consulate. Col. Wood, military Site Security Team (SST) commander, is in Benghazi, and helps with emergency response. July 2012: RSO Nordstrom again requests additional security (perhaps via cable signed by Amb. Stevens dated July 9, see below). July 9, 2012: Amb. Stevens sends a cable requesting continued help from military SST and State Dept. MSD (Mobile Security Deployment team) through mid-Sept. 2012, saying that benchmarks for a drawdown have not been met. The teams are not extended. ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622/140 "2013-08-21T09:11:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > or the lack of support after the previous attacks: > > [Security Incidents Prior to the Benghazi Attack](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57544719/benghazi-timeline-how-the-attack-unfolded/) A series of unsuccessful attacks happened in a war zone. Eventually, 3 people died in a slightly-more successful attack. People with benefit of hindsight say “there should have been more security.” If that’s a “scandal,” one wonders how Reagan ever survived the political fallout from Beirut! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iokiaddi-its-ok-if-a-democrat-does-it/666622.md?page=8)