# iPod Touch map app-- how does it know where I am? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441 "2009-09-25T00:44:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/1 "2009-09-25T00:44:21Z")
It seems to pick up my location even if it doesn’t register any wireless networks around. . . and even if it did pick up networks, how would it determine physical location from that? It doesn’t have GPS or phone. Is it tiny demons? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/2 "2009-09-25T01:05:17Z")
I have an iPod Touch and it only shows your location if you are connected to WiFi. I assume that the physical location of the wireless network is logged somewhere, and the iPod uses that. But as to where the physical location is logged, that I don’t know. At home I have a wireless router connected via a cable broadband connection. I assume that IP address is registered to my house, and the location is pretty accurate (as accurate as a postcode look-up, in fact, so I guess the IP address equates to my postcode somehow). ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/3 "2009-09-25T01:15:40Z")
Apple teamed up with [Skyhook Wireless](http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2008-01-22-skyhook_N.htm) which sent people driving around the country mapping Wi-Fi hot spots. Your Touch detects any local hotspots and is able to find you on a map. Sounds pretty unreliable to me, but it somehow works pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/4 "2009-09-25T04:00:27Z")
WiFi as sort of an urban GPS. A system that tracks the user… . Interesting concept. And very scary. ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/5 "2009-09-25T12:36:30Z")
I thought it was some sort of trilateration based on nearby wireless towers. Perhaps I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Aestivalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Aestivalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aestivalis)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/6 "2009-09-25T13:06:41Z")
Phones without a GPS receiver (and those with one, if they can’t get a signal) can cheat by triangulating via Cell Towers, but the iPod Touch is not a phone. As they said, they probably track your IP address and trace it to your general location. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/7 "2009-09-25T13:07:03Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > WiFi as sort of an urban GPS. A system that tracks the user… . Interesting concept. And very scary. I’m not sure it tracks the user. If it has a wifi map built in, it could all be done on the device. That may be how it works since it doesn’t need to connect to a network to locate itself. I agree the potential is there. > [@hobscrk777](#): > > I thought it was some sort of trilateration based on nearby wireless towers. Perhaps I’m wrong. They do that too. Actually, let me take that back. The iPhone does that, I’m not sure about the Touch. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/8 "2009-09-25T15:14:06Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > WiFi as sort of an urban GPS. A system that tracks the user… . Interesting concept. And very scary. Why is it so scary? I don’t buy the 1984 conspiracy theory that GPS is some huge threat to the citizenry. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/9 "2009-09-25T15:47:50Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Apple teamed up with [Skyhook Wireless](http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2008-01-22-skyhook_N.htm) which sent people driving around the country mapping Wi-Fi hot spots. Your Touch detects any local hotspots and is able to find you on a map. > > Sounds pretty unreliable to me, but it somehow works pretty well. That is pretty cool. I wonder how often they have to re map things to keep things accurate? People and businesses move so the wifi base stations are changing. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/10 "2009-09-25T16:35:39Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Why is it so scary? I don’t buy the 1984 conspiracy theory that GPS is some huge threat to the citizenry. Nothing scary at all about GPS. At least the way it is used now. I do see the posibility though of WiFi tracking customers to tell the next store down the street that Joe Blow is in the area, and he likes such and such. I like my anominity. I doubt that could really happen though. I don’t know enough about the handshake in the wireless networks. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/11 "2009-09-25T16:38:11Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Nothing scary at all about GPS. At least the way it is used now. > > I do see the posibility though of WiFi tracking customers to tell the next store down the street that Joe Blow is in the area, and he likes such and such. I like my anominity. > > I doubt that could really happen though. I don’t know enough about the handshake in the wireless networks. That is very different from what this app is doing. This app is using the ipod to listen for wifi signals in order to determine where you are. There is no transmitting from the ipod to the wifi base stations for this location application. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/12 "2009-09-25T18:09:16Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > WiFi as sort of an urban GPS. A system that tracks the user… . Interesting concept. And very scary. Well, if you have WiFi on, the data is going from the server somewhere to a computer to the WiFi to your phone anyway. Getting something else useful out of it is hardly scary. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ipod-touch-map-app-how-does-it-know-where-i-am/511441/13 "2009-09-26T07:08:54Z")
It is the aforementioned triangulation based on the known location of WiFi signals it can pick up. The reason it works even when you don’t see any wireless networks is that it can get the identity (and therefore location) of encrypted signals. So, while you can’t use those to connect to the web, your iTouch can use them to plot your location. –Cliffy