# IQ Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 8, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632 "2005-07-08T19:00:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/21 "2005-07-09T00:22:17Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **dolphinboy** > > _… I would still contend that people with poor memories are at a real disadvantage…_ > > This is certainly true in the U.S. educational system, where success (meaning good grades) can depend a lot on having a good memory. It would be very hard to score good grades without at least a decent short-term memory for taking tests in subjects like history, geography, biology, anatomy, and other subjects where you have to memorize definitions and terminology. I’ve known some very smart people who just don’t do well on tests that depend on memorizing stuff. I say they’re smart because they are great problem solvers and can coherently discuss a wide range of topics. But I also know a lot of smart people who are wizzes at recalling stuff. Guess which of these smarties get into more top schools? The ones who can do the tests because they can memorize stuff. Yes, but remember… that’s all an IQ test was designed to indicate: how successful you are likely to be, compared to your peers, in the mainstream U.S. school system. Not greater intelligence, but greater projected ability to succeed in school. Which, back when the IQ test was developed, depended a great deal on memory. Not entirely, which is why there are other components to the exam, but yes a large portion is influenced by the ability to memorize data. Today, not so much emphasis is placed on memorization in school, and slowly the test is changing to reflect that. Often, the questions to go are the ones mentioned, that seem more to test “cultural awareness” than the current type of intelligence which indicate you will do well in an American school. And, anecdotally, I have a shitty ass memory - I’m renowned for my lousy memory by all those who know me - but I have a fairly impressive IQ (certainly more than adequate for MENSA and for special enrichment classes in school). ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/22 "2005-07-09T00:34:37Z")
> [@nivlac](#): > > Guess which of these smarties get into more top schools? The ones who can do the tests because they can memorize stuff. But, as the infra-expert mentioned, there’s no easily demonstrable thing that can be called “general intelligence”. There are many different individual aptitudes and abilities that go into what IQ tests measure, and if a good memory is one of them, why shouldn’t that be considered one aspect of intelligence? The very existence of _g_ (short for **g** eneral intelligence) is questionable, but what is certain is that people have varying aptitudes for specific types of problems - ones involving spatial reasoning, or mathematics, and so on. Good memory _does_ help one accomplish tasks requiring mental effort, so why shouldn’t it be a component of that overall score on your IQ test? Naturally, some people with poor memories have other individual intelligences in spades, but the same is true when you examine any individual component of intelligence. I’ve known very smart people who couldn’t do algebra, or spell simple words, let alone tell you who wrote _Faust_ (who was it, anyway? Just in case I ever take that test . . . .) Those people had other areas of intelligence, though. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/23 "2005-07-09T00:47:02Z")
All of the questions in the Law School Admission Test (LSAT) rely on deductive reasoning. None of the questions relies on long-term memory. All of the questions can be answered by using the information given to you on the test. ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/24 "2005-07-09T00:47:56Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > I’ve known very smart people who couldn’t do algebra, or spell simple words, let alone tell you who wrote _Faust_ (who was it, anyway? Just in case I ever take that test . . . .) I suspect that they will accept Gounod or Goethe as the answer to the _Faust_ question. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_408](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Section\_408](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_408)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/25 "2005-07-09T01:46:44Z")
I think some people are starting to mix up intelligence and IQ. People have given examples of people who are absolutely brilliant but possess lousy memories. The question is, how do people with lousy memories score on IQ tests versus people with better memories? To answer that, you’d probably need some sort of case study (which I would like to see) But getting back to the matter at hand, having taken some IQ tests it was explained to me that they measure two things chiefly: 1. How fast one can learn things 2. How many things one can learn That being said, I think it comes as no surprise to find that people with good memories, and from my experience I would say an overwhelming majority of them, are fairly intelligent. People can certainly be very intelligent and lousy memories, but because they make up for it in other areas, where they can pick things up quickly or have other skills. While memory is a skill that can be honed, it is just like any other skill and is possessed by some people naturally who can never practice at it and still have a better memory than someone who tries their entire life to improve their memory. I personally feel that memory and intelligence are very closely related. Obviously you don’t need a good memory to be intelligent, but do you need to be intelligent to have a good memory. Lots of people have given examples of intelligent folks with lousy memories, but how many people with good memories would you consider unintelligent (not using IQ tests as a measure of intelligence)? I think you’d find that people with good memories and low intelligence are the exception rather than the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Ragiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6de8d8/32.png) [@Ragiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ragiel)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/26 "2005-07-09T02:14:22Z")
When I took that test, I immediately said Goethe, never even realizing that it could be a question about opera. ☹ I sure hope it was an acceptable answer. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/27 "2005-07-09T02:29:17Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > You can probably find some good books on memory training at your local library. I recommend [Your Memory: How It Works and How to Improve It](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1569246297/qid=1120875894/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/002-1826224-4682402?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) by Kenneth Higbee, Ph.D. Unlike most other memory books, Higbee’s approach is very realistic, pragmatic, and unlikely to fill the reader with false hope. The book has been revised twice since its original publication thirty years ago and is impeccably referenced, yet clear and readable enough for practically anyone to understand. The chapters on how memory works make for some fascinating reading, even to those who aren’t committed enough to follow through with the exercises (like me). ---
**Author:** ![rkts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@rkts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rkts)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/28 "2005-07-09T02:42:15Z")
_Faust_ is a play. There have been several operas based on it; Gounod’s is just the most famous. So I am almost certain that the correct answer is Goethe, though I should hope they would also accept Gounod. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/29 "2005-07-09T02:42:37Z")
> [@Ragiel](#): > > When I took that test, I immediately said Goethe, never even realizing that it could be a question about opera. ☹ > I sure hope it was an acceptable answer. Or Christopher Marlowe, whose earlier book (in English) inspired Goethe to write his (in German), which in turn was based on yet earlier accounts. I suspect Goethe was the “expected” and only “right” answer; these tests are usually written, or at least scored, by people with a “one right answer” view, i.e. the person who came up with it didn’t know about either Marlowe or the opera and was really trying to “test” for a general knowledge of the “canon of Western Literature”. ---
**Author:** ![rkts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@rkts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rkts)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/30 "2005-07-09T02:49:26Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Or Christopher Marlowe, whose earlier book (in English) inspired Goethe to write his (in German), which in turn was based on yet earlier accounts. But, IIRC, none of those other accounts were titled “Faust,” so they don’t count. Also, do you believe “scare quotes” a sign of “intelligence”? ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/31 "2005-07-09T02:59:36Z")
> [@rkts](#): > > But, IIRC, none of those other accounts were titled “Faust,” so they don’t count. > > Also, do you believe “scare quotes” a sign of “intelligence”? I don’t deny that you are technically right, nor am I defending these types of tests. But I do stand by my guess (which is just a guess): that the question writer was fishing for the answer “Goethe”, and since the writer was probably not the scorer, that someone who put down “Gounoud” would have been marked wrong. It’s not like on Jeopardy! where there’s a panel of judges who can overrule the official answer to say that yes, the contestant’s unexpected answer was equally or at least reasonably valid given the wording of the question. Most of these tests (certainly all the ones I’ve seen and taken, which I have done so on at least 5 occasions) are standardized, either multiple choice or with an answer key. What are “scare quotes”? ---
**Author:** ![rkts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@rkts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rkts)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/32 "2005-07-09T03:07:29Z")
Scare quotes are those used to indicate not a quotation but a vague sense of superiority toward the word or words being used. You used them five times in a two-sentence post, and I found the effect amusing. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/33 "2005-07-09T03:09:58Z")
> [@rkts](#): > > Scare quotes are those used to indicate not a quotation but a vague sense of superiority toward the word or words being used. You used them five times in a two-sentence post, and I found the effect amusing. I suppose you’d have found my hand gesture involving the bunny-rabbit-fingers of both hands funny too then 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/34 "2005-07-09T03:18:11Z")
Okay, beats the heck out of me what IQ really is - or what “intelligence” is, for that matter. (Intelligence is what the military is suppose to have - but even if they have it, but no one believes it, how smart is that?) (Or if world leaders believe the wrong parts of it, for that matter?) Can only suggest a couple things. I was taking an IQ test - just seemed like something I had to try - and part of the test was quickly figuring how many coins made up the right amount of change. I was having an off day, and I felt like I sucked at that part of the test - and I’m usually fairly good at numbers. So the last part of the IQ test was listening to a story, and then answering questions about it. I figured that if I had any shot at this, I better listen up good. I did so, it seems. The story was about how the beginnings of Greek theater (that is, _all_ theater) started with quasi-religious ceremonies involving a group of men standing around in a circle chanting, singing. When the pressure was on, I was able to concentrate. I was able to not only remember what I heard, but answer questions about it, questions that took some thought. I remembered and - apparently - understood well enough. I can _still_ remember, many years later, what that darned story was about. Sort of. Still haven’t found a way to work it into happy hour discussions. IMHO: intelligence is several things, not easy to separate. It’s not definable, really, but there’s something to the idea, because we can somehow sort of tell people who have a lot of it from those who don’t. Memory is part of it, but video tape can remember a lot more than any of us, and magnetic tape isn’t held to be especially bright, so that apparently isn’t all of it. It sure as fuck ain’t a virtue, nor any other reason for putting on airs. Some have it, some don’t. Don’t know why. Finally, I’m intrigued by the idea that emotional intelligence is maybe a better predictor of success than other kinds of intelligence. Not that we can measure that either, but it does make sense that people who know how and when to ask, “hows it going,” will maybe be better at making it through life than totally insensitive bastids, no matter how “smart.” ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/35 "2005-07-09T03:22:25Z")
On review, correct that to “all Western theater.” Sorry 'bout that. ---
**Author:** ![Just](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4af34b/32.png) [@Just](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/36 "2005-07-09T04:46:48Z")
I think memory is pretty important to our perception of someone’s IQ. I once saw on late night TV a guy advertising his book on how to improve your memory. I wanted to buy the book, but I forgot the title. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/37 "2005-07-09T05:07:23Z")
Then you have “idiot savant” cases (think Dustin Hoffman in _Rain Man_) with terrific memories, but not much else going on up there. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/38 "2005-07-09T06:30:25Z")
By all definitions of which I am aware, memory and intelligence are distinct qualities. But certainly it is true that good memory is generally perceived as intelligence. For example, I have a good-but-not-spectacular IQ, but used to have a spectacular memory. My perceived intelligence (among peers, teachers, etc.) benefited greatly from the latter. Just as it now suffers since I have lost the knack. BTW, I believe the earlier post about Feynman’s IQ understates it by almost ten points. IIRC, his sister reported him as having tested at 135. This is important. That score hits the 98th percentile, and the evidence is slim that scores above that produce meaningful differences in terms of success. (Unfortunately, my reference for that is a Scientific American article by Linda Gottfredson which I downloaded a few years ago but their archive is now accessible only by subscription.) ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/39 "2005-07-09T15:40:01Z")
I was always considered above the norm, and I have a terrible memory for memorizing things. I usually have to resort to the tricks that are in “improve your memory” type books. But I’ve always been near the top of the curve despite this handicap, and without any homework or outside studying because I _did not learn by memorizing_. I just kind of soak up things if they’re in any way meaningful to me. And yes, there’s a big difference between the two. ---
**Author:** ![vera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b3f665/32.png) [@vera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vera)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632/40 "2005-07-09T17:01:38Z")
I took an IQ test when I was younger and the results said I had an IQ of 142. I don’t know whether this is accurate or not, but everyone I know says I’m pretty smart. And I have an awful memory, I oftentimes start walking to a room to get something, and will already have forgotten what I needed by the time I’ve reached the room. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iq-question/311632.md?page=3)