# Iran: "Death to America!" Why isn't this on the news? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555 "2004-12-01T20:03:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/1 "2004-12-01T20:03:39Z")
From the AP: > [@](#): > > To shouts of “Death to America,” Iran’s parliament unanimously approved the outline of a bill Sunday that would require the government to resume uranium enrichment, legislation likely to deepen an international dispute over Iran’s nuclear activities [Read the rest of the article here](http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB0J9LCZ0E.html) As we wade through the mire of Iraq, this shit goes on without even a peep on the news. Why isn’t anyone talking about this? Iran is developing nuclear weapons and will not hesitate to use them against America; what will we do? How can we negotiate with a nation whose lawmakers chant “Death to America” and whose leader is a fanatical Islamic Ayatollah? Just wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/2 "2004-12-01T20:08:30Z")
Well, I heard it on N.P.R. and apparently you read it in a wire service article. So how do you conclude it’s not in the news? ---
**Author:** ![Iridium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@Iridium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iridium)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/3 "2004-12-01T20:19:08Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > How can we negotiate with a nation whose lawmakers chant “Death to America” and whose leader is a fanatical Islamic Ayatollah? > > Just wondering. They’ve been shouting that for years. Possibly even before the Iran-Iraq war, when the US (and other Euro/Western allies) were backing Iraq. There are heavy diplomatic discussions going on about Iran’s nuclear capacity, but it’s not that easy negotiating with a country that probably has warheads already. Iran is posturing, helps their position in negotiations. I’m more curious about what Israel will do once it decides that Iran’s nuclear capabilities are too far advanced. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/4 "2004-12-01T20:20:47Z")
The thing is, there’s not much we can do about it if the Iranians are determined to get nuclear weapons. Sanctions? OK, sure. Getting the Europeans to go along with sanctions? I’m sure we can get the Europeans to make some disaproving noises, and get them to write some strongly worded letters, and maybe impose some sanctions that will last for a while. The UN? The UN will impose sanctions about as effective as the sanctions against Iraq. Oil for Nukes anyone? The fact is that Iran is going to get nuclear weapons. We can’t stop them short of military action. We aren’t going to use military action. Not after the difficulties in Iraq. The Israelis can drop a few bombs on suspected Iranian nuclear sites, but that isn’t going to stop Iran, and will provoke a new Israeli-Arab war. Therefore, Israel will do nothing. Therefore, Iran will have nuclear weapons within a few years. Done and done. Now, what are we going to do now that Iran has nuclear weapons? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/5 "2004-12-01T20:22:50Z")
I’m sure there are leaders in Iran who ask themselves, “How can we negotiate with a nation whose lawmakers permit waging ‘pre-emptive war’ on false pretenses and whose leader was just re-elected by fanatical Christian fundamentalists?” ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/6 "2004-12-01T20:25:29Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > As we wade through the mire of Iraq, this shit goes on without even a peep on the news. Why isn’t anyone talking about this? Iran’s nuclear program and the attempts by the EU and UN to make them stop has been one of the top post-election stories. There have been several threads in this forum. Also, your link is a month old, Iran did in fact agree to (temporarily) stop enrichment. It remains to be seen whether or not the deal will stick. > [@](#): > > Iran is developing nuclear weapons and will not hesitate to use them against America; what will we do? It’s debatable whether or not they’re developing weapons, and I’d say very unlikely that they would (or could) use them against America “without hesitation”. > [@](#): > > How can we negotiate with a nation whose lawmakers chant “Death to America” and whose leader is a fanatical Islamic Ayatollah? We’ve negotiated with them before, with at least somewhat decent results. The present strategy of “good cop, bad cop” we have going with the EU seems to have been successful, at least so far. > [@](#): > > The UN will impose sanctions about as effective as the sanctions against Iraq. Oil for Nukes anyone? The UN sanctions were corrupt, but they were also effective in preventing Saddam from developing weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/7 "2004-12-01T20:30:04Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The UN will impose sanctions about as effective as the sanctions against Iraq. In that case I’m not worried anymore. > [@](#): > > Now, what are we going to do now that Iran has nuclear weapons? Beats me. I really wish somebody, no, ANYbody in the public sphere would answer that question. It’s going to be hard enough to deal with as it is, and it may be hard to get other nations to go along with any plan. But I’d feel better if I thought there _was_ a plan. ---
**Author:** ![Iridium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@Iridium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iridium)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/8 "2004-12-01T20:30:30Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Now, what are we going to do now that Iran has nuclear weapons? Cold war: Israel (and perhaps Pakistan) will be used to check Iran, since they are allies with the US. Once the US secures a pro-American government in Iraq, Iran’s options will be further narrowed. Still, Iran can’t really be forced to concede easily or under humiliating conditions. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/9 "2004-12-01T20:32:53Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Why isn’t anyone talking about this? Actually, there have been severl threads in the past while about Iran and its nuclear potential. My impression is that this has been all over the place in the news. Prob’ly just my selective attention, though. > [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Iran is developing nuclear weapons … Possibly > [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > and will not hesitate to use them against America; Extremely unlikely. ‘National obliteration’ has yet to lose its deterrent value. > [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > what will we do? How can we negotiate with a nation whose lawmakers chant “Death to America” and whose leader is a fanatical Islamic Ayatollah? I’m sure we’ll manage somehow ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/10 "2004-12-01T20:33:44Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > As we wade through the mire of Iraq, this shit goes on without even a peep on the news. Why isn’t anyone talking about this? You mean, aside from the front page articles in most major dailies regarding the ups and downs of the enrichment talks that have been going on for the past few months? > [@](#): > > Iran is developing nuclear weapons and will not hesitate to use them against America They’re not going to use them against the United States. > [@](#): > > what will we do? How can we negotiate with a nation whose lawmakers chant “Death to America” and whose leader is a fanatical Islamic Ayatollah? When has the United States made any effort to negotiate with Iran before this happened? Why should they negotiate with us? The United States has not shown itself to be an honest negotiator in the past few years. If I was Iran, I’d be trying to get nuclear weapons as quickly as possible before the United States decided to invade me, too. Truth is, if this administration hadn’t been so gung-ho and eager to go to war in the United States, we’d probably be in a better position to peacefully negotiate. This is what happens when you prove yourself to be a dishonest player on the world stage. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/11 "2004-12-01T20:37:53Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > They’re not going to use them against the United States. I doubt this as well. On the other hand, Iran does have more concrete relationships with terrorism than certain other Middle Eastern countries starting with “I-r-a” that we’ve invaded recently. > [@](#): > > If I was Iran, I’d be trying to get nuclear weapons as quickly as possible before the United States decided to invade me, too. Me too, and that’s the problem. For Iran to give up the enrichment, they would have to think it’s in their best interests to do that instead of continuing. When you think you’re dealing with a country that will pre-emptively invade other countries provided they can’t defend themselves, that strikes me as a pretty hard thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/12 "2004-12-01T20:38:02Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The UN? The UN will impose sanctions about as effective as the sanctions against Iraq. You mean the sanctions that were effective for preventing Iraq from developing or redeveloping any chemical, biological or nuclear weapons for over a decade? Sounds good to me. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/13 "2004-12-01T20:39:51Z")
> [@Iridium](#): > > Israel will do once it decides that Iran’s nuclear capabilities are too far advanced. I’ve an unfounded opinion that Israel and Iran have already outlined some non-public agreements re the post-Hussein ME. > [@Lemur866](#): > > We can’t stop them short of military action. We aren’t going to use military action. Some projections indicate this would but _delay_ the occasion and harden the hearts of Iranians against the US. > [@Lemur866](#): > > Now, what are we going to do now that Iran has nuclear weapons? With all due respect to Iran, Iran with nuclear weapons is just a kitten compared to the USSR with nuclear weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/14 "2004-12-01T20:43:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I doubt this as well. On the other hand, Iran does have more concrete relationships with terrorism than certain other Middle Eastern countries starting with “I-r-a” that we’ve invaded recently. True, but I really don’t see Iran arming them, nor do I see either of those groups using nuclear weapons - with both Iran and those groups knowing that it will pretty much mean the end of them. > [@](#): > > Me too, and that’s the problem. For Iran to give up the enrichment, they would have to think it’s in their best interests to do that instead of continuing. When you think you’re dealing with a country that will pre-emptively invade other countries provided they can’t defend themselves, that strikes me as a pretty hard thing to do. Pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![Iridium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@Iridium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iridium)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/15 "2004-12-01T20:47:32Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > I’ve an unfounded opinion that Israel and Iran have already outlined some non-public agreements re the post-Hussein ME. I’ve heard anecdotally that Israeli and Turkish intelligence (there is cooperation between these two countries) already have a reasonably good estimate of how much enriched nuclear material Iran can produce in the next 18 months. It’s possible that Iran and Israel have some kind of secret agreement, but considering Iran’s support of certain terrorist groups, I don’t see how either side could trust the other enough to make an deal. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/16 "2004-12-01T20:53:02Z")
> [@Iridium](#): > > I’ve heard anecdotally that Israeli and Turkish intelligence (there is cooperation between these two countries) already have a reasonably good estimate of how much enriched nuclear material Iran can produce in the next 18 months. It’s possible that Iran and Israel have some kind of secret agreement, but considering Iran’s support of certain terrorist groups, I don’t see how either side could trust the other enough to make an deal. Well, as I noted, my opinion is unfounded. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/17 "2004-12-01T20:57:34Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > True, but I really don’t see Iran arming them, nor do I see either of those groups using nuclear weapons - with both Iran and those groups knowing that it will pretty much mean the end of them. I agree it’s not a likely scenario, a government would know what’s at risk. But I do think stateless terrorists are more likely to use a nuclear weapon than a government. As the A.Q. Khan situation shows, you may not need cooperation of a whole government for these materials to be moved around. ---
**Author:** ![Iridium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@Iridium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iridium)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/18 "2004-12-01T20:59:01Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Well, as I noted, my opinion is unfounded. Eh, with 90% of this stuff going on behind closed doors, who really knows anything? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/19 "2004-12-01T21:01:21Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > When has the United States made any effort to negotiate with Iran before this happened? Undoubtedly we have engaged in negotiations with Iran for quite some time. Recently we negotiated about the trade of some terrorists that they had captured (Zarqawi was rumored to be among them- second or third time some has captured the fella and his leg(s)) for some terrorist we had captured in Iraq- the [MKO/MEK/NLA/NCRI](http://newsjunkiesunanimous.com/simonxs_seen/mek_notes/mek_notes.html) crowd. They wanted to try a number of the terrorist we captured. Others they were willing to grant amnesty to if they were willing to swear off terrorism. Notable in the history of US - Iran negotiation since the revolution are the Reagan years. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/20 "2004-12-01T21:02:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As the A.Q. Khan situation shows, you may not need cooperation of a whole government for these materials to be moved around. I’m not sure that the Pakistani govt was as ignorant of the goings on as is claimed in some press releases. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555.md?page=2)