# Iran: "Death to America!" Why isn't this on the news? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555 "2004-12-01T20:03:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/41 "2004-12-02T04:03:32Z")
As a pre-emptive strike, I’ll just say that I am surprised to see noone in this thread has yet raised the argument “Why would Iraq want nuclear energy for peaceful purposes, like they claim, when they are sitting on all of that oil?” I always love this argument because you just have to ask such a person: “Well, then, explain why the U.S. pursued nuclear power when we are sittin on all of that coal?” Not that I am saying that we should trust that Iraq is not pursuing nuclear weapons and apply the necessary diplomatic pressure on this issue, but we also need to weigh the evidence objectively rather than jumping to conclusions, like we did so well with Iraq. People are very good at seeing the most nefarious purposes in other people’s actions. > [@RedFury](#): > > Well, there goes the whole collection of Conservatives I respect on this board. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/42 "2004-12-02T06:18:41Z")
My wife recently brought home an **Atlantic magazine** that was left on a plane. In it were two articles which were very appropriate to this discussion. [**Atlantic Online**](http://www.theatlantic.com/) > [@](#): > > **Among the Hostage Takers** > 25 years ago Iranian students stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. Now many of the hostage-takers speak candidly about their actions. [ul][li] The opinion of each person interviewed reflected their current status. Those who are in the government have a positive opinion of taking the hostages; those out of the government were either reluctant to speak or had a negative view of what was done.[/li][li] The Russian Embassy was an option, but the U.S. was chosen because the Shah had been allowed to enter the U.S. and the Iranians thought this was part of a plan to return him to power. They did not know he was dying.[/li][li]There was no intent for holding the Embassy for more than a couple of days. They knew it would be a popular thing to do, but had no idea things would get so out of control. This presented serious problems for the students on matters as simple as how to feed the hostages.[/li][li] The person who came up with the idea says that if he had to do it over, he won’t do it. The main reason he believes this and others agree, is that the people it brought to power have not been good for Iran.[/ul][/li] > [@](#): > > **Will Iran Be Nest** > Soldiers, spies and diplomats conduct a classic Pentagon war game-with sobering results. [ul][li] Militarily speaking there are three actions that could be taken.[/li][list][li] Launch missiles attacking elite units of Iran’s army. Can be done independant of other two options and is the likely to cause the least problems. Would last about 5 hrs.[/li][li] Bomb all known nuke sites in Iran. This would last about 5 days and cause many problems. Could be done independant of other two options.[/li][li] Invade Iran, but stop short of taking Tehran. Requires the other two options being performed. The troops now in Iraq could be used, but a major problem would be in getting the machinery needed into the area. This could not be done without Iran knowing what was going on. The plan would be to get rid of the regime, but to then get out.[/ul][/li][li] One recommendation made was to have airfields built to receive the needed machinery, in case we decided to invade. This idea was discarded since Iran would know why they were being built.[/li][li] The possibility of letting Israel do the bombing was considered and instead a recommendation was made to tell Israel not to do it because:[/li][ul][li] Israel’s planes don’t have the range and would need to be refueled. This would require our support, which would be no secret to Iran or the rest of the world.[/li][li] If Israel didn’t get every target, Iran would retaliate.[/li][li] Israel doesn’t have all the needed target info, again would require our assistance.[/ul][/li][li] A very big problem is that at present Iran is not putting a great deal of pressure on in Iraq. That would change if we take any action against them, even building the airfields.[/li][li] The possibility that we could attack has to be kept _“on the table”_ even though there is no good scenerio for taking such action.[/list][/li] The list of participants in this war game put on by **Atlantic** was very impressive and I believe their reasoning and final recommendations are encouraging. It should be mentioned that they pointed out that this was only a brief war game. Within the government more detailed and various types of war games should be carried out. The bad news is that they seemed to question whether this was done before the action in Iraq. I recommend anyone who can get their hands on this issue of **Atlantic** read both articles. I hope I haven’t done them an injustice in this post. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/43 "2004-12-02T07:50:10Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I’m sure there are leaders in Iran who ask themselves, “How can we negotiate with a nation whose lawmakers permit waging ‘pre-emptive war’ on false pretenses and whose leader was just re-elected by fanatical Christian fundamentalists?” Yes because somehow fundamentalist Iranian theocracy is comparable to the Bush Administration. :rolleyes: Give it a rest. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/44 "2004-12-02T07:51:20Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Yes because somehow fundamentalist Iranian theocracy is comparable to the Bush Administration. :rolleyes: > > Give it a rest. So you’re saying Iran’s leaders think the Bush Administration are a bunch of reasonable people? I kinda doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/45 "2004-12-02T08:37:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So you’re saying Iran’s leaders think the Bush Administration are a bunch of reasonable people? I kinda doubt it. No, comparing a fundamentalist Islamic regime to the Bush administration is laughable. I’m glad the Bush Administration isn’t being reasonable to Iranian hardliners wanting a nuclear bomb. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/46 "2004-12-02T08:41:38Z")
I wonder if the clowns running Iran today actually THINK about the consequences of this propaganda? Sure, most of it is for local consumption…but when they openly call for the death of the “Great Satan”, surely they should wonder a bit? Take the example of Nasser and Israel. Before the 1967 war, Nasser was constantly making threats against Israel-he was going to “drive the Zionists into the sea”, etc. He then pushed the Israelis into a corner…then woke up one morning to find his airforce destroyed! The Israelis may well have concluded that Iran’s threats are not idle…and the Iranians might have reason to regret this. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/47 "2004-12-02T16:22:01Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I’m sure there are leaders in Iran who ask themselves, “How can we negotiate with a nation whose lawmakers permit waging ‘pre-emptive war’ on false pretenses and whose leader was just re-elected by fanatical Christian fundamentalists?” > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Yes because somehow fundamentalist Iranian theocracy is comparable to the Bush Administration. :rolleyes: > > Give it a rest. Bush? I thought he was talking about Carter! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/48 "2004-12-02T16:25:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Bush? I thought he was talking about Carter! > > Regards, > Shodan Come on, Shodan. You know better than that. Carter was never reelected. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/49 "2004-12-02T16:44:00Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Take the example of Nasser and Israel. Before the 1967 war, Nasser was constantly making threats against Israel-he was going to “drive the Zionists into the sea”, etc. He then pushed the Israelis into a corner…then woke up one morning to find his airforce destroyed! Well Nasser also massed his troops on his eastern boarder in apparent preperation for an attack on Israel. Nasser’s threats were less rhetoric and more policy statements, the Israelis attacked when it appeared he was actually going to follow through. I’m sure the Iranians understand that when threatening the US verbally, its important not to actually threaten the US physically as well. If they massed thier troops on their boarder with Iraq and started chanting death to america, then they might have to worry about some preemptive striking. And for the record, the Pres of the US did call Iran “evil” in a major speech, so the rhetoric goes both ways. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/50 "2004-12-02T20:59:56Z")
> [@](#): > > And for the record, the Pres of the US did call Iran “evil” in a major speech, so the rhetoric goes both ways. And this is why we’re having the problems we face today in Iran as well as North Korea. Yeah, we should all be “glad” that Bush is unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/51 "2004-12-02T23:26:35Z")
Bunch of Iranians screaming “Death to US!” ceased to be newsworthy and became a stereotype long time ago. If those Iranians want to get back in the news, they better sing “Yankee Doodle” or something. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/52 "2004-12-03T01:56:34Z")
Fitz, many in Iran who remember from 25 years ago are still pissed that the US imposed the Shah on them, after they previously and democratically elected their own government. And these Atlantic war games forget one thing–the good possibility that all of Iran will resort to guerilla warfare in response to an invasion. Guerilla tactics have proven to be more effective than conventional attack/defense against the likes of Israel and the US. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@ladyfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfish)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/53 "2004-12-03T02:30:31Z")
> [@Iridium](#): > > Cold war: Israel (and perhaps Pakistan) will be used to check Iran Possibly true, but this will have a highly destabalizing affect on Pakistan-India relations. It would be foolish to do anything that would start another nuclear arms-race between those two. > [@Iridium](#): > > Once the US secures a pro-American government in Iraq, Iran’s options will be further narrowed. Which, as an aside, could explain the current administrations insistence on January elections in Iraq. A pro-American _government_ in Iraq, however, does not by any means guarantee a pro-American _population_ OR, more importantly, a pro-American _Iraqi National Military_, which is what would be needed to bring any pressure on Iran from that direction. > [@Iridium](#): > > Still, Iran can’t really be forced to concede easily or under humiliating conditions. I hope this administration figures that out before they start something with possibly disasterous results in that region. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@ladyfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfish)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/54 "2004-12-03T02:50:18Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Doesn’t it seem a tad strange that they’re doing it at a lawmaking session, and that the lawmakers themselves are doing it, right after they approved new nuclear developments? And doesn’t it seem odd that they’d be screaming this if it were indeed all for peaceful energy purposes? U.S. policies in the Middle East inspire a lot of passion. It may seem odd from a westerners point of view for a lawmaking body to erupt in something so…colloquial, but that is just a cultural difference. The POTUS in his SOTU address called three countries Evil. People in the Iran, Iraq, and NK probably thought that was odd as well. ---
**Author:** ![Iridium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@Iridium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iridium)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/55 "2004-12-03T03:24:37Z")
> [@ladyfish](#): > > Possibly true, but this will have a highly destabalizing affect on Pakistan-India relations. It would be foolish to do anything that would start another nuclear arms-race between those two. Well, they’ve already sortof got one going, but seem to be making progress on disputed areas. And since both are (and want to remain) US allies, they’d probably consult before using. > [@](#): > > Which, as an aside, could explain the current administrations insistence on January elections in Iraq. A pro-American _government_ in Iraq, however, does not by any means guarantee a pro-American _population_ OR, more importantly, a pro-American _Iraqi National Military_, which is what would be needed to bring any pressure on Iran from that direction. Well, it could turn out like Egypt in the 20s, when Britain declared them independent without negotiating clear terms. So you’d get anti-British gov’ts elected (yes, Egypt briefly had parliamentary democracy), but the British Embassy still called the political shots, the economy was controlled primarily by foreigners and there was still a huge British military presence at the Suez. I would imagine something similar happening in Iraq post-election, with the US exerting control through its embassy in Baghdad. > [@](#): > > I hope this administration figures that out before they start something with possibly disasterous results in that region. Looking at some maps now, it seems as though the US may have been planning to contain Iran all along, with the only possible barrier to this being Iraq. There is a CENTCOM base in Qatar, nicely placed at S. Iran along with Pakistan and Afghanistan. Iraq and Turkey to the west. Turkey may have issues with being used as a US staging ground, but the other sites could hit Iran from all sides except the NE. Hmm…that _is_ disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@ladyfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfish)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/56 "2004-12-03T06:16:01Z")
> [@Iridium](#): > > Looking at some maps now, it seems as though the US may have been planning to contain Iran all along, with the only possible barrier to this being Iraq. There is a CENTCOM base in Qatar, nicely placed at S. Iran along with Pakistan and Afghanistan. Iraq and Turkey to the west. Turkey may have issues with being used as a US staging ground, but the other sites could hit Iran from all sides except the NE. > > Hmm…that _is_ disturbing. It still looks strategically and tactically unsound. Strategic: 1 - The U.S. is unlikely to get ANY Middle Eastern country besides Israel and maybe Kuwait to lend support for an attack on another Islamic country. 2 - There is no logistical means of moving the necessary number of troops and equipment into place without giving Iran months to prepare. 3 - The Iraqi insurgency would seize on the oppurtunity to swell their ranks and overthrow any elected government. Tactically: 1 - The terrain would make it impossible to protect supply lines from guerilla style attacks. 2 - The population density in the east would make any assault from the Iraqi border an urban assault nightmare. Now all of this could be negated by a sufficiently horrendous terrorist attack linked to Iranian material and/or logistical support on western interest. But that is going off into pointless speculation. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555/57 "2004-12-04T07:11:56Z")
> [@capacitor](#): > > And these Atlantic war games forget one thing–the good possibility that all of Iran will resort to guerilla warfare in response to an invasion. Guerilla tactics have proven to be more effective than conventional attack/defense against the likes of Israel and the US. Not true, they said the invasion would be for regime change; that Tehran would not be entered; and we would get out very soon (nothing like Iraq). However, the reason that this and the other two military actions were ruled out was that the Iranians could give us serious problems in Iraq if they even smelled that preparations were being made for an attack. Iran could also put a hurt on us via oil supplies. I also stated that I may not have done justice to the **Atlantic** and suggested that those who could should read the article. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-death-to-america-why-isnt-this-on-the-news/277555.md?page=2)