# Iran declines invitation to call Trump about Trump's concerns: Trump the statesman, part 2? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 10, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786 "2019-05-10T16:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/1 "2019-05-10T16:28:51Z")
Or maybe that should be “Trump the statesman? (Part 2)”. Anyway, [here’s the sitch](https://apnews.com/2c52085b08354fcd80fe38402a42e50f): > [@](#): > > A top commander in Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guard said Friday that Tehran will not talk with the United States, an Iranian news agency reported — a day after President Donald Trump said he’d like Iranian leaders to “call me.” > > The semi-official Tasnim news agency quoted Gen. Yadollah Javani as saying that “there will be no negotiations with America.” > > The Iranian commander also claimed the U.S. would not dare take military action against Iran but did not elaborate. It all started last week, with the US announcing that it was moving naval resources to the area in response to a claimed missile shipment that supposedly threatened American interests. Then on Wednesday, Iran made noise about resuming nuclear enrichment operations. > [@](#): > > And on Wednesday, Iran threatened to renew some nuclear enrichment that had been halted under the 2015 nuclear deal with world powers — a year after Trump pulled America from the accord, saying it does nothing to stop Iran from developing missiles or destabilizing the Middle East. > > But in a softer approach, Trump told reporters on Thursday at the White House: “What I would like to see with Iran, I would like to see them call me.” The whole “call me” thing is a serious mis-step, IMO. It is a position that conveys both the attitude of superiority and a weakness of will. It’s just not how things work: if you want to talk to them, you call them. They don’t want to talk to you, or they’d have called already, IMO. Also, Trump enabled the whole thing by pulling the US from the Iran nuclear accord (INA). I’ve got a bad feeling about this. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/2 "2019-05-10T16:41:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The whole “call me” thing is a serious mis-step, IMO. It’s the same bullshit he tried to pull off with North Korea. He thinks that suddenly Iran is going to be so honored by his invitation that it will submit to his demands, because he’s such a great “deal maker.” He’s a self-deluded one-trick pony. Or maybe just an old dog that can’t learn anything. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/3 "2019-05-10T16:51:15Z")
Abandoning the Iran nuclear deal was IMO the most catastrophic foreign policy blunder since the invasion of Iraq, and with the potential to be even worse. Just incredibly stupid policy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/4 "2019-05-10T17:00:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Or maybe that should be “Trump the statesman? (Part 2)”. > > Anyway, [here’s the sitch](https://apnews.com/2c52085b08354fcd80fe38402a42e50f): > It all started last week, with the US announcing that it was moving naval resources to the area in response to a claimed missile shipment that supposedly threatened American interests. > > Then on Wednesday, Iran made noise about resuming nuclear enrichment operations.The whole “call me” thing is a serious mis-step, IMO. It is a position that conveys both the attitude of superiority and a weakness of will. It’s just not how things work: if you want to talk to them, you call them. They don’t want to talk to you, or they’d have called already, IMO. > > Also, Trump enabled the whole thing by pulling the US from the Iran nuclear accord (INA). > > I’ve got a bad feeling about this. Why do you have a bad feeling about it? The other signatories are fighting the US on this, and are still honoring the commitments by and large. If Iran breaches the 300 KG limit they signed on to honor then that will change, and everyone will reimpose sanctions back to where they were. So, it’s in Iran’s hands at this point. I think the benefits, even with the US reimposing our own sanctions outweigh the cons for them to continue to honor the thing. I also think it would be smart for them to talk to the US, even if I agree Trump saying to call him is idiotic. But I think there were valid reasons for the US to reassess our stance wrt Iran (their continued support of terrorist groups in the region being the primary one) on this, though I disagreed at the time that this was the best way to do this. ETA: Of course, what’s really going on in all of this is it’s a struggle between the ‘moderates’ (for Iran) and the hardliners, and we’ve undercut the ‘moderates’. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/5 "2019-05-10T17:01:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Abandoning the Iran nuclear deal was IMO the most catastrophic foreign policy blunder since the invasion of Iraq, and with the potential to be even worse. Just incredibly stupid policy. Yep. The fact that we even got them to agree to that deal was nothing short of a miracle. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/6 "2019-05-10T17:55:56Z")
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying or (what I think) you’re implying. The nuclear deal was a good thing and Trump and the Republicans are idiots for putting politics over peace. On the other hand, Iran does seem to be meddling in a most sinister way with respect to the ‘Israeli-Palestinian conflict’[sup]TM[/sup]. They are increasingly involved with sponsoring proxies to destabilize things and inflame that conflict as well as, more generally, in the Middle East, e.g. in Syria and Iraq. Iran is, ultimately, _the_ Shiite power in a region where, in its opinion, Sunnis are too often calling the shots. And that is intolerable to Iran. The US could choose to be in a position where they commit to neither Sunni Saudi Arabia nor Shia Iran. But by unreservedly supporting the Saudis, America guarantees an aggressive Iran and makes perpetual conflict in the region inevitable. So, it’s not so much that the US should try to honor the Iran nuclear deal as it is that it should tell Saudi Arabia to get fucked. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/7 "2019-05-11T02:53:39Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > So, it’s not so much that the US should try to honor the Iran nuclear deal as it is that it should tell Saudi Arabia to get fucked. Trump tries to be very chummy with the House of Saud, especially since the Crown Prince murdered a journalist in cold blood — something Trump would like to have the guts to do. Is this why Trump is so hateful against the Saudi’s strategic enemy, Iran? Despite that Iran is stategic ally of Trump’s best pal, Vladimir Putin? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/8 "2019-05-13T19:13:14Z")
[Pre-lims & posturing have already started](https://apnews.com/d4745d1f1b944470a0e382b81fd71670)! > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump is warning Iran, saying that if Tehran does “anything” in the form of an attack “they will suffer greatly.” > > Trump was asked Monday about two Saudi oil tankers and a Norwegian-flagged vessel being damaged in what Gulf officials described as a “sabotage” attack off the coast of the United Arab Emirates. > > Details of the incident remain unclear. But it raised risks for shippers in a region vital to global energy supplies at a time of increasing tensions between the U.S. and Iran over its unraveling nuclear deal with world powers. > > Trump was asked about the sabotage, and responded: “It’s going to be a bad problem for Iran if something happens.” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/9 "2019-05-13T19:33:51Z")
Thank heaven there’s a level headed genius in the oval office who can address all of the issues created by the level headed genius in the oval office! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/10 "2019-05-13T19:40:01Z")
[Britain speaks up](https://apnews.com/833861467c51489893550a3a2d454de2): > [@](#): > > Britain warned Monday that armed conflict might be sparked “by accident” amid rising tensions between the United States and Iran, as U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo held talks with officials from European powers that are racing to salvage a nuclear deal with the Islamic republic. > > Britain’s foreign secretary offered the warning as Saudi Arabia said two of its oil tankers were sabotaged and received “significant damage” Sunday off the coast of the United Arab Emirates, one of the vessels as it was heading to pick up Saudi oil to take to the United States. > > Washington has warned shipping companies that “Iran or its proxies” could be targeting maritime traffic in the Persian Gulf region and said it was deploying an aircraft carrier and B-52 bombers to the Persian Gulf to counter alleged threats from Tehran. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/11 "2019-05-13T19:47:51Z")
[This](https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2019/05/13/missiles_on_ships_making_sense_of_irans_moves_in_the_gulf_114416.html) is a pretty thorough analysis of the initial shipment of missiles that sparked the increased tension. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/12 "2019-05-13T19:49:10Z")
And [here](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran/iran-commander-calls-us-military-in-gulf-a-target-not-a-threat-isna-idUSKCN1SI056) was some sabre-rattling by the IRGC: > [@](#): > > “An aircraft carrier that has at least 40 to 50 planes on it and 6,000 forces gathered within it was a serious threat for us in the past but now it is a target and the threats have switched to opportunities,” said Amirali Hajizadeh, head of the Guards’ aerospace division. > > “If (the Americans) make a move, we will hit them in the head,” he added, according to ISNA. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/13 "2019-05-13T23:35:40Z")
[Setting the table now:](https://apnews.com/d5884f62de8c4f9d955684ea71c90c01) > [@](#): > > An American military team’s initial assessment is that Iranian or Iranian-backed proxies used explosives Sunday to blow large holes in four ships anchored off the coast of the United Arab Emirates, a U.S. official said Monday. > > The official said each ship has a 5- to 10-foot hole in it, near or just below the water line, and the team’s early belief is that the holes were caused by explosive charges. The team of U.S. military experts was sent to investigate the damages at the request of the UAE, but American officials have not provided any details about what exactly happened or any proof as yet about the possible Iranian involvement in the explosions. > > The official was not authorized to discuss the investigation publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity. > > Gulf officials have characterized the damage to the tankers as sabotage. Two Saudi oil tankers, a Norwegian-flagged vessel, and a bunkering tanker flagged in Sharjah, one of the UAE’s seven emirates, all suffered similar damage Sunday. > > The U.S. has warned ships that “Iran or its proxies” could be targeting maritime traffic in the region, and America has moved additional ships and aircraft into the region. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/14 "2019-05-13T23:41:17Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Setting the table now:](https://apnews.com/d5884f62de8c4f9d955684ea71c90c01) I hope this will be thoroughly investigated by both journalists and hopefully third party investigators. The Iranian government can’t be trusted, and unfortunately, neither can the current administration, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/15 "2019-05-13T23:43:51Z")
UAE asked the Americans for help investigating. Do you think they’re interested in a war breaking out between the USA and Iran? Do you think if the USA was trying to frame Iran for it, they’d say something, or help? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/16 "2019-05-14T01:13:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > UAE asked the Americans for help investigating. Do you think they’re interested in a war breaking out between the USA and Iran? Do you think if the USA was trying to frame Iran for it, they’d say something, or help? At this point, there is not enough information, to know. Asking the U.S. to assist investigations just means that the U.S. has the most resources to conduct investigations and anyone not directly allied to Iran wants to keep favorable relations with the U.S. regardless of what ultimate goal they desire. How many experts in sabotage investigations does the UAE have to keep an eye on the U.S. And, as GWB demonstrated with his Office of Special Plans, the U.S. cannot be trusted to provide objective analysis. (Bolton strikes me as the sort who would create his own OSP if he felt he could gt away with it.) North Korea, Iran, and the U.S. are all currently being led by excitable leaders of limited control or sanity and whether it is “the other guys” or the Trump/Bolton team, there are too many torches being juggled near piles of munitions. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/17 "2019-05-14T04:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > NEW: Iran or Iranian-backed proxies used explosives to blow holes in four ships – two Saudi oil tankers and two others – near the Strait of Hormuz, according to an initial assessment of the U.S. team sent to investigate, @CBSDavidMartin confirms. [source](https://twitter.com/CBSEveningNews/status/1128063926120472576) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/18 "2019-05-14T04:49:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [source](https://twitter.com/CBSEveningNews/status/1128063926120472576) Could so easily be a false flag, and I don’t think it’s possible to draw any conclusions about who the perpetrators were. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/19 "2019-05-14T05:00:34Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Could so easily be a false flag, and I don’t think it’s possible to draw any conclusions about who the perpetrators were. I agree that some rumored attribution, without compelling evidence provided, leaves a lot to be desired in terms of confidence in the initial conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/20 "2019-05-14T13:15:32Z")
“Iran or Iranian-backed proxies”. So - it was either Iran or someone else. And we don’t know who the someone else is, but despite not knowing who they are or even whether they’re from Iran or somewhere else we somehow know that they were doing it in on behalf of Iran. Sorry - I mean “could be” doing it on behalf of Iran. It probably was Iran but given our other various recent screw-ups in the region based on lies, false intelligence, nefarious political machinations and general incompetence, perhaps some more solid intel would be good before doing anything precipitous. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786.md?page=2)