# Iran declines invitation to call Trump about Trump's concerns: Trump the statesman, part 2? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 10, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786 "2019-05-10T16:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/21 "2019-05-14T13:59:49Z")
And it was a piece of cake to get to this point. All we had to do was cancel the nuclear agreement, and then send in our navy! MAGA! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/22 "2019-05-14T15:00:51Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Could so easily be a false flag, and I don’t think it’s possible to draw any conclusions about who the perpetrators were. While it is of course necessary to determine who exactly did the attack, especially before lives are risked, let’s not kid ourselves that a 9/11 Truther-type thermite inside job conspiracy is plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/23 "2019-05-14T16:25:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > While it is of course necessary to determine who exactly did the attack, especially before lives are risked, let’s not kid ourselves that a 9/11 Truther-type thermite inside job conspiracy is plausible. It seems unlikely, certainly. That said, it’s not like Iran is the only party in the region who would like to blow a few holes in US warships. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/24 "2019-05-14T16:44:27Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It seems unlikely, certainly. That said, it’s not like Iran is the only party in the region who would like to blow a few holes in US warships. Well, now I question whether you’re following the news. US warships were not involved. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/25 "2019-05-14T17:14:48Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > …let’s not kid ourselves that a 9/11 Truther-type thermite inside job conspiracy is plausible. You trust Saudi Arabia that much to rule them out completely? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/26 "2019-05-14T17:21:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > While it is of course necessary to determine who exactly did the attack, especially before lives are risked, let’s not kid ourselves that a 9/11 Truther-type thermite inside job conspiracy is plausible. He didn’t say anything about a conspiracy theory. He said it could be a false flag. These have occurred several times. There is no reason to associate them with a conspiracy theory. Even in Iran attacked the Saudis, it would be foolish for the US to continue its provocations against Iran and its nuclear-armed allies. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/27 "2019-05-14T17:26:59Z")
Well, I’m sure this is reassuring: [Trump says US not ramping up for military conflict with Iran](https://apnews.com/12759a52e62c40d8affad93c1f605b2e) > [@](#): > > Trump was responding to Tuesday’s report in The New York Times that the White House is reviewing military plans against Iran that could result in sending 120,000 U.S. troops to the Middle East if Iran attacks American forces or steps up work on nuclear weapons. > > Trump says it’s “fake news.” He says he would “absolutely” be willing to send troops, but that he’s not planned for that and hopefully won’t have to plan for that. > > He says if the U.S. was going to get into a military conflict with Iran, “we’d send a hell of a lot more” troops. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/28 "2019-05-14T17:35:15Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > You trust Saudi Arabia that much to rule them out completely? This isn’t about trust. It’s about tin-foil hats that some people want to wear when the topic of war comes up. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/29 "2019-05-14T18:12:56Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This isn’t about trust. It’s about tin-foil hats that some people want to wear when the topic of war comes up. I suggest you write to news outlets, [like the BBC](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-48245204), and ask them to remove the inverted commas around the word “sabotaged” and other words and phrases. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/30 "2019-05-14T18:18:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This isn’t about trust. It’s about tin-foil hats that some people want to wear when the topic of war comes up. It is more so about embarrassing credulity amongst the public that has led to real consequences for the victims of the US military. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/31 "2019-05-14T18:57:42Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > I suggest you write to news outlets, [like the BBC](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-48245204), and ask them to remove the inverted commas around the word “sabotaged” and other words and phrases. They use a ton of odd quotes in that article. I’m not fixated on one use more than any other. if you want to be the punctuation-marm, have a “blast.” ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/32 "2019-05-14T20:00:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > They use a ton of odd quotes in that article. I’m not fixated on one use more than any other. if you want to be the punctuation-marm, have a “blast.” Wikipedia provides [several examples](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag#As_pretexts_for_war) of false flag operations used as pretexts to start wars, so it really is a thing. Saudi Arabia’s bin Salman would love to go to war with Iran with the active participation of the United States, and possibly Israel. Bin Salman has already shown boldness and recklessness in his foreign adventures, such as the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, and the kidnapping and forced resignation of the Lebanese Prime Minister. These Saudi actions were so outrageous and brazen that they were described in commentary as “dumb” and “crazy”. So I have an open mind about who perpetrated whatever happened, until presented with some evidence one way or the other. I would be inclined to put the Iranians as the prime suspects, at this early stage, but would not rule out any of the principal regional actors who have vested interests in provoking conflict. You, however, are proposing a closed-mind analysis, ruling out one possibility for reasons you have not yet outlined, before even seeing any evidence. Why do you rule out the possibility that this could be a false flag operation? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/33 "2019-05-14T20:02:33Z")
I said the cause should be investigated. I’m not in favor of throwing out conspiracy theories in the absence of facts, as you have done. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/34 "2019-05-14T20:33:16Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I said the cause should be investigated. I’m not in favor of throwing out conspiracy theories in the absence of facts, as you have done. The Iranians have been accused of sabotaging the ships, and they have denied it and called for an independent investigation, while hinting that “a third country” could be to blame. How can that be a conspiracy theory to present their version of events? My post raising the possibility of a false flag operation was in response to a post reporting of news that a U.S. team had concluded that “Iran or Iranian-backed proxies used explosives to blow holes in four ships.” Surely both sides in a conflict situation should be heard, and one side’s argument should not be ignored? Each side should then present the evidence of their claims for us to pass judgement on. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/35 "2019-05-14T20:35:52Z")
Oh, well if Iran denied it, then we’ve got a stone cold whodunnit on our hands. Maybe Trump can make a call to Rouhani and then tell the media that Rouhani swears it wasn’t him. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/36 "2019-05-14T20:56:57Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Why do you have a bad feeling about it? The other signatories are fighting the US on this, and are still honoring the commitments by and large. If Iran breaches the 300 KG limit they signed on to honor then that will change, and everyone will reimpose sanctions back to where they were. So, it’s in Iran’s hands at this point. I think the benefits, even with the US reimposing our own sanctions outweigh the cons for them to continue to honor the thing. I also think it would be smart for them to talk to the US, even if I agree Trump saying to call him is idiotic. But I think there were valid reasons for the US to reassess our stance wrt Iran (their continued support of terrorist groups in the region being the primary one) on this, though I disagreed at the time that this was the best way to do this. > > ETA: Of course, what’s really going on in all of this is it’s a struggle between the ‘moderates’ (for Iran) and the hardliners, and we’ve undercut the ‘moderates’. US sanctions affect more than US trade. The US is threatening to go after any company and country that is continuing business with Iran, refusing to extend waivers to countries that have, up unto now, continued buying Iranian oil, with the declared intent to “shut down Iranian oil exports completely”. The EU is trying countermeasures to this, but US sanctions are still continuing to severely reduce the activity of EU companies in Iran, so the situation is already fast moving towards a state where the deal might as well be completely dead as far as the Iranians are concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/37 "2019-05-14T21:32:33Z")
[Marco Rubio eggs it on](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/14/marco-rubio-says-war-with-iran-is-up-to-ayatollah-khamenei-its-all-on-them.html): > [@Marco Rubio](#): > > It’s all on them, and it’s a grave risk. I don’t want a war, we don’t want a war, but that’s up to them. Sure, Marco. \ I ain’t looking’ for a fight here, Marco. \ It’s up to you if this is a fight or not. \ Entirely up to you. \ ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/38 "2019-05-14T21:45:37Z")
[Remember the Maine!](http://www.ushistory.org/us/44c.asp) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/39 "2019-05-14T22:08:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Marco Rubio eggs it on](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/14/marco-rubio-says-war-with-iran-is-up-to-ayatollah-khamenei-its-all-on-them.html): > > Sure, Marco. \ I ain’t looking’ for a fight here, Marco. \ It’s up to you if this is a fight or not. \ Entirely up to you. \ What do you think Senator Rubio is doing that is the geopolitical equivalent of slapping Iran in the face? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/40 "2019-05-14T23:48:27Z")
“They made me do it!” Party of personal responsibility, my ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786.md?page=3)